More 2024 Hypotheticals

[vcczar]

I'm starting to think there's a chance Trump wouldn't endorse DeSantis, considering Trump's been attacking DeSantis lately because he's been deviating with Trump's stances regarding COVID, Vaccines, and Masks. 

[vcczar]

@Pringles your response to #4 and #12 is interesting because one would think they'd be the same. 

[Pringles]

5 minutes ago, vcczar said:

@Pringles your response to #4 and #12 is interesting because one would think they'd be the same. 

I'm starting to think Trump is losing a lot of his own people by being weirdly pro-vaccine. If Biden's approvals are low enough I think itll negate some Trumpies staying home. Desantis still has a big following. 

Trump running third party would hurt him even more at this point in my opinion. If this was a year ago my answer would be different. 

[Zenobiyl]

27 minutes ago, vcczar said:

I'm starting to think there's a chance Trump wouldn't endorse DeSantis, considering Trump's been attacking DeSantis lately because he's been deviating with Trump's stances regarding COVID, Vaccines, and Masks. 

I would laugh my ass off at a 1912 redux with DeSantis as the Republican and a Third Party Trump.

[vcczar]

16 minutes ago, Pringles said:

I'm starting to think Trump is losing a lot of his own people by being weirdly pro-vaccine.

I don't think so. His following is so cult based, I feel like he could adopt all of Bernie Sanders's positions without losing his base. 

17 minutes ago, Pringles said:

Trump running third party would hurt him even more at this point in my opinion. If this was a year ago my answer would be different. 

I mean in regards to Biden winning #4 but losing #12. 

[Pringles]

4 minutes ago, vcczar said:

I don't think so. His following is so cult based, I feel like he could adopt all of Bernie Sanders's positions without losing his base. 

I mean in regards to Biden winning #4 but losing #12. 

Pretty sure I have Biden losing both 4 and 12? 

And back to the losing base thing, I think when you see the ground results of what's going on... Trump is getting booed by his own people more, and high profile figures among the Trump base, people like Broebert are bashing him as of late. Hes digging his own hole. 

[jvikings1]

50 minutes ago, Pringles said:And back to the losing base thing, I think when you see the ground results of what's going on... Trump is getting booed by his own people more, and high profile figures among the Trump base, people like Broebert are bashing him as of late. Hes digging his own hole. 

That’s the feeling I get as well. He has made some crucial political miscalculations which threaten his invincibility within the party. If he ran, I still think he’s the front runner, but he’s not the invincible front runner that it looked like he’d be not too long ago.

[MrPotatoTed]

2 hours ago, vcczar said:

I'm starting to think there's a chance Trump wouldn't endorse DeSantis, considering Trump's been attacking DeSantis lately because he's been deviating with Trump's stances regarding COVID, Vaccines, and Masks. 

Trump will never endorse anyone, even his own children, over himself.

He may briefly endorse someone, but it will never stick.  He'll change his mind and lash out in a day or two.

[MrPotatoTed]

1 hour ago, Patine said:

 

You know what I find absolutely insane with the world today (among many other things I've gone on about). Vaccination has existed on record since Mary Stuart Montagu, at four years old, became the, "guinea pig," for a smallpox vaccine in front of the Royal Court Physicians in London at age four by orders of her mother, Lady Mary Wortley Montagu. However, in almost 300 years since, this procedure has NEVER become a major, dividing political issue, and in so many nations at once, no less. Perhaps people need to think rationally, and not listen to the whackos on Anthony Burgoyne's YouTube playlist, and refuse to support, endorse, or vote for, and even be willing to publicly dress down, call out, and humiliate politicians who spew lies, myths, and garbage (which does not only include Trumpists and far-right whack-jobs in Canada, Australia, Europe, India, Brazil, and Israel), but also the radical, bizarre, historical revsionist, deconstructionist, and counter-rational ideals of the growingly large extremes of the Social Progressive Movement, and those who keep advocating for and demanding military and foreign policy, and economic planks, that almost always fails and makes things worse, and those that push for backdoor tyranny by playing fear and anger like a harp. All of these enemies of civilization must be not only denounced, but have their rhetoric treated like it does NOT come from credible, mature adults, and be thrown to the Dustbin of History. Only then will rationality, sensibility, and any true good, advancement, and betterment even be possible.

I'm not sure I actually understood what you were going for in that paragraph, but if you're suggesting being anti-vax is new...it sadly is not.  We chose my daughter's daycare 8 years ago based on which places required all kids to be vaccinated, and there were already state laws about them (for and against) so it was a political issue long before Covid.  (Though it certainly shouldn't be).

[MrPotatoTed]

4 minutes ago, Patine said:

I'm not at all saying anti-vaccination attitudes, myths, and conspiracy are new. I'm saying it being a major, divisive, and defining pivot of the politics of quite a few nations where people in posts right above are discussing the potential electability of high profile candidates based on their stance on it is very new - and very troubling. I'm well aware that, as a good example, Kirstie Alley (a member in good standing of the Church of Scientology and pusher of dubious fad diets) was an early celebrity anti-vaxxer back when I was in high school. But it's never been remotely to the extremity it is now. That's what I was saying.

Fair enough.  For many, it's apparently a religious issue (under the false impression that aborted fetuses are used to create the vaccines), and in America at least, religion and politics are permanently entwined.

(To be clear, I know your feelings on this already, and I agree with you.  The "religion" preached by many of these politicians and their followers is no version of the Catholicism I was raised under.)

[jvikings1]

1 hour ago, MrPotatoTed said:

(under the false impression that aborted fetuses are used to create the vaccines)

Every one of the COVID shots used fetal cell lines in the research process at minimum (which is still a relationship that is too close for many people). It is far from a myth.

[jvikings1]

37 minutes ago, Patine said:

They wouldn't necessarily all be, aborted. A fair number of them may be from miscarriages, which provide a much larger pool of material, and very few mothers of miscarriaged fetuses actually demand the fetus to put in their freezer and bond in macabre show-and-tell with their children like Barbara Bush did with George W., Jeb, and Neil.

The cell line used goes back to aborted babies (the HEK-293 line)

Edited January 16, 2022 by jvikings1

[MrPotatoTed]

5 minutes ago, jvikings1 said:

The cell line used goes back to aborted babies (the HEK-293 line)

One baby.

In 1973.

And it is not at all proven that it was an aborted baby.  

Even if it was, the Pope has approved receiving the COVID-19 vaccine.

[Hestia]

11 minutes ago, MrPotatoTed said:

One baby.

In 1973.

And it is not at all proven that it was an aborted baby.  

Even if it was, the Pope has approved receiving the COVID-19 vaccine.

Wait wait wait. Reading all this and it was one baby from almost 50 years ago? That had no tie to *this* vaccine other than the fact it aided vaccines in general? 

[MrPotatoTed]

2 minutes ago, Hestia said:

Wait wait wait. Reading all this and it was one baby from almost 50 years ago? That had no tie to *this* vaccine other than the fact it aided vaccines in general? 

That's pretty much the gist of it.

[MrPotatoTed]

Think about the frankly INSANE number of human lives, of every age, race, gender, nationality, that that one fetus has saved.

[Pringles]

I am a little confused about this discussion ongoing here but let me get this straight for my own clarity purposes.

No "fetuses" are used in the COVID-19 vaccines? (I've frankly never heard of this anyways so please educate me. I'm surprised I haven't known this. Although I've known it to be true in other areas, stem cell research etc. etc. etc.)

The only "fetus" "aborted baby" whatever we want to call it, to be used in a vaccine was in the 70s?

And this laid a blueprint for future vaccines? 

Sorry if I'm having trouble understanding what should be obvious, just a little hard to keep track of the discussion. 

[Pringles]

1 minute ago, Patine said:

@jvikings1 does not self-identify as a, "Moderate Conservative," like you do. He is a Hard, Radical Libertarian worshipping the Invincible Integrity of Rand Paul, quoting bizarre and counter-intuitive interpretations of the U.S. Constitution, believing that being xenophobic and elitist is how to be a good Christian, and having a closet, but bleeding admiration for Donald Trump. I hope that helps clarify things a bit. 😉

Err, ok. I just wanted to know about the vaccine stuff but thanks. 😛 

[Pringles]

3 minutes ago, Patine said:

I didn't elaborate enough. The groups who jumped on that one fetus that would be older than I am if still alive today and declared that fetus use was rampant in the vaccines (fetus material directly in every dose, by some extreme reckonings) and said that no good Christian would take the vaccine (and then tied in a flawed view of the Mark of the Beast that didn't even match the Prophecy) were groups who operate in the ideological spheres that @jvikings1 (as well as Anthony Burgoyne) subscribe to. I hope that clarifies where I was getting at.

Oh I see now. Thanks. 

[Zenobiyl]

6 hours ago, Pringles said:

Pretty sure I have Biden losing both 4 and 12? 

And back to the losing base thing, I think when you see the ground results of what's going on... Trump is getting booed by his own people more, and high profile figures among the Trump base, people like Broebert are bashing him as of late. Hes digging his own hole. 

I cant speak for everyone by my trumpist relatives are DeSantis supporters now

[Zenobiyl]

7 hours ago, vcczar said:

@Pringles your response to #4 and #12 is interesting because one would think they'd be the same. 

The way the question is set up implies a split field, which would throw the race to Biden by plurality.

[MrPotatoTed]

10 hours ago, Zenobiyl said:

I cant speak for everyone by my trumpist relatives are DeSantis supporters now

Agreed.  When I wander into the toxic wasteland that is the comments section of news stories, I see people over and over wishing that America was more like Florida, Florida has zero problems, Florida is a magical wonderland where Covid does not exist and never has existed...

That's insanity, of course -- but it's the same insanity that led people to elect Donald Trump.  

[jvikings1]

13 hours ago, MrPotatoTed said:

One baby.

In 1973.

And it is not at all proven that it was an aborted baby.  

Even if it was, the Pope has approved receiving the COVID-19 vaccine.

One innocent life is too many. And the evidence suggests it is more likely than not that it came from an abortion.

And the Pope does not speak for all Christians. In fact, many consider him a joke. So his approval of something means very little unless one is a Catholic who believes in Papal Infallibility.

[jvikings1]

13 hours ago, Hestia said:

Wait wait wait. Reading all this and it was one baby from almost 50 years ago? That had no tie to *this* vaccine other than the fact it aided vaccines in general? 

It does have a tie. Every COVID shot used the cell line at least in the testing stage (the J&J one used it more).

[jvikings1]

13 hours ago, Pringles said:

I am a little confused about this discussion ongoing here but let me get this straight for my own clarity purposes.

No "fetuses" are used in the COVID-19 vaccines? (I've frankly never heard of this anyways so please educate me. I'm surprised I haven't known this. Although I've known it to be true in other areas, stem cell research etc. etc. etc.)

The only "fetus" "aborted baby" whatever we want to call it, to be used in a vaccine was in the 70s?

And this laid a blueprint for future vaccines? 

Sorry if I'm having trouble understanding what should be obvious, just a little hard to keep track of the discussion. 

Don’t listen to Patine’s self absorbed holier-than-thou language.

 

There are those who believe it is wrong to benefit from evil (abortion). The cell line used in the process of creating certain shots/vaccines likely comes from an abortion (the level of involvement varies from the testing stage to the manufacturing stage). Therefore these people refuse to take a product that was developed with help of a product resulting from abortion.