Thoughts on Ukraine

[MrPotatoTed]

22 minutes ago, Patine said:

I don't think, psychologically, it's as meaningless as you think. A Freudian slip is still a valid assessment in psychology today. Plus, maybe his humanity and conscience are tormented by what he did in war and the betrayals to fundamental pillars and laws of his own nation - even if he still has supporters who still see no possible wrong-doing in such, by some inexplicable viewpoint. It would be an interesting irony.

I think the idea that THIS verbal trip up is finally revealing his true thoughts after 22+ years of completely unrelated verbal trips having no relevance at all...I think THAT is the inexplicable viewpoint. ;c)

[MrPotatoTed]

32 minutes ago, Patine said:

To be frank, I've always thought you - and others - belief that Bush committed NO CRIMES AT ALL, either by the Constitutional limits on his office, the Constitutional guarantees (notably to due process), the Internationally recognized laws around war, or the use of torture, does seem - and always will will seem, inexplicable to me. But I seem unable to convince you to put two and two together from what's blatantly, and that has always been inexplicable. I have a strong sense, and a belief NO ONE should be above the law and justice, and seen as automatically above reproach, and it does tend to be offensive to me when some claim certain should. I, myself, don't think the idea of someone who has lead such very contentious actions that have caused such profound consequences might feel remorse, and even if not out and say it publicly, might have it slip, to be inexplicable. It's part of the difficult and tangled state of being human. It would be impossible for either of us to know long a hypothetical feeling may have been brewing, and neither of us are in his personal confidences.

But that's not what we're talking about.  We're not talking about my feelings about Iraq, and we're not talking about yours.  For this to be a sudden, though unintentional reveal, of Bush's darkest inner thoughts -- they have to be his actual inner thoughts.  And there's literally nothing to suggest that those are his thoughts, especially when he's constantly tripping over phrases.  What was his dark inner thought when he said "I know the human being and fish can co-exist together peacefully"?  Was he revealing his secret sexual kink when he said "I know how hard it is to put food on your family"?

Dude just isn't a great public speaker, and he mixes up words some times.  This isn't new -- he's been doing it in public for more than 20 years.

[SilentLiberty]

16 hours ago, jnewt said:

George Bush Freudian Slip

 

He says "75", as in how old he is, as why. Also says "Iraq too"(maybe admitting guilt) regardless our current sitting president is 79...

[jnewt]

1 hour ago, SilentLiberty said:

He says "75", as in how old he is, as why. Also says "Iraq too"(maybe admitting guilt) regardless our current sitting president is 79...

I’m not really sure what you’re trying to get at here since all you said was just a summary of the clip… He’s old and I think that perhaps played a role in him slipping up and telling the truth, be it because he actually believed it or if it was just another Bushism. 

[SilentLiberty]

2 hours ago, jnewt said:

I’m not really sure what you’re trying to get at here since all you said was just a summary of the clip… He’s old and I think that perhaps played a role in him slipping up and telling the truth, be it because he actually believed it or if it was just another Bushism. 

I'm trying to get it, if Bush is blaming his age, and he's 4 years younger than our sitting President that's a problem. I mean Biden is older than the president we had in the 90's. I guess the point I'm making more than anything is the one Patine likes to make about our presidents being dotards. Biden is older than the president we had 30 years ago. It's quite frankly baffling to me.

 

Though I do think Bush was being sincere in this moment, his adding "Iraq too" after correcting himself makes it seem genuine rather than a bushism...you know there's an old saying in Tennessee...hahahah

[Timur]

10 hours ago, MrPotatoTed said:

Dude just isn't a great public speaker, and he mixes up words some times.  This isn't new -- he's been doing it in public for more than 20 years.

He's not alone.

 

[MrPotatoTed]

11 hours ago, SilentLiberty said:

I'm trying to get it, if Bush is blaming his age, and he's 4 years younger than our sitting President that's a problem. I mean Biden is older than the president we had in the 90's. I guess the point I'm making more than anything is the one Patine likes to make about our presidents being dotards. Biden is older than the president we had 30 years ago. It's quite frankly baffling to me.

 

Though I do think Bush was being sincere in this moment, his adding "Iraq too" after correcting himself makes it seem genuine rather than a bushism...you know there's an old saying in Tennessee...hahahah

The voters nominated and elected both of the oldest candidates ever.  It's not like there wasn't a bevy of other options.

Interestingly, Bush's autobiography "Decision Points" repeatedly says that the time for his own generation's political leadership is over (a criticism of McCain's nomination in 2008), that it's time for Obama's generation not just for Democrats but for Republicans too.

Hilariously, both President after that have been older than Bush.

[Hestia]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/19/world/europe/russia-bucha-ukraine-executions.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes

The New York Times obtained video footage of 8 Ukrainian men being escorted towards a courtyard to where they were executed moments later by Russian forces in Bucha, just outside of Kyiv. The footage was from March 4th. It is utterly horrifying, but exceptional journalism. Below is a selection of what the Times found.

The Times says, "In two videos, Russian paratroopers march them at gunpoint along a street in Bucha, a suburb of Kyiv. Some of the Ukrainian captives are hunched over, holding the belts of those in front of them. Others have their hands over their heads. “Walk to the right, bitch,” one of the soldiers orders them.

The videos, filmed on March 4 by a security camera and a witness in a nearby house and obtained by The New York Times, are the clearest evidence yet that the men were in the custody of Russian troops minutes before being executed.

“Hostages are lying there, against the fence,” the person filming one of the videos says. He counts: “One, two, three, for sure, four, five, six …” In total, nine people are being held."

The men are forced to the ground, including one wearing a distinctive bright blue hooded sweatshirt.

The video ends. But eight witnesses recounted to The Times what happened next. Soldiers took the men behind a nearby office building that the Russians had taken over and turned into a makeshift base. There were gunshots. The captives didn’t return.

A drone video filmed a day later on March 5, also obtained by The Times, is the first visual evidence that confirms the eyewitness accounts. It showed the dead bodies lying on the ground by the side of the office building at 144 Yablunska Street as two Russian soldiers stood guard beside them. Among the bodies, a flash of bright blue was visible — the captive in the blue sweatshirt.

[ShortKing]

8 minutes ago, Patine said:

so I guess you're not exactly Mr. Democracy, are you? 🤨

dude how is a long-winded screed that borders on personal attacks appropriate in general, let alone on a thread entitled "Thoughts on Ukraine"?

[vcczar]

8 minutes ago, ShortKing said:

dude how is a long-winded screed that borders on personal attacks appropriate in general, let alone on a thread entitled "Thoughts on Ukraine"?

I'm generally okay with one off-topic comment, but if it progresses, yeah, I'll have to scrub the thread of the off-topic posts.