What Would You Do in Ukraine? (3/6/22) poll

[vcczar]

New poll

[Rezi]

I would do everything and anything short of starting a global conflict.

[vcczar]

I would do more if they strike US soil, troops, or a nation outside of the US obviously. 

I call myself a quasi-pacifist, but I've always said I support intervention in humanitarian crises. This is a completely unjust war. 

[Hestia]

A no-fly zone is tricky. The feasible way it could have been instated would have been at the very beginning of the conflict, or before it started. If NATO had made a serious, ready to back it up, statement that they would defend Ukraine's skies, it is possible it would have deterred Russia from attempting to operate in them. Trying to put it in while the fighting is ongoing is considerably more dangerous and is extremely risky.

We have also seen that Ukraine is incredibly capable on their own. Anti-aircraft weapons should be sent en masse to Ukraine - a no-fly zone may not be needed in a case where their anti-aircraft are blowing Russians out of the sky consistently. The US should be training Ukrainian pilots that may not be needed right now to operate more advanced aircraft that the US could lend them in the future. The US should be prepared to do whatever it takes to get Poland, Bulgaria and Slovakia to hand over their MiGs to Ukraine - including replacing them with our own aircraft as soon as possible. It's a win-win for all involved. The eastern flank is now considerably more beefed up, and Ukraine has more planes on their hands to defend themselves.

Moldova should be granted immediate accession into NATO. Their relationship with Transnistria is considerably warmer than Georgia with South Ossetia/Abkhazia, or obviously Ukraine and Donetsk/Luhansk. The odds that Moldova is attacked because of a Transnistrian guise is incredibly low. Moldova in NATO would deter Russia from even thinking about placing a hit on Moldova next. Sweden and Finland as well, should they prove willing and submit an application.

More refugees should be granted immediate settlement to the United States as soon as possible. Moldova, Poland, Hungary, etc. should not be expected to handle it alone.

If Russia uses chemical weapons against Ukraine, a no-fly zone should be implemented immediately, regardless of the status of the war. 

[vcczar]

I'm for about anything but boots on the ground and nukes. Russia hasn't enough allies for a WWIII scenario. It will basically be Most of the Entire World vs. Russia & Belarus. 

[DakotaHale]

> I would forbid all US businesses or foreign businesses operating in the US from conducting business in Russia.
That's scary to think about

> I would influence NATO to establish a no-fly zone over Ukraine.
This would lead to war IMO

[DakotaHale]

I am very interested in seeing if @Patine takes this poll.

[Hestia]

8 minutes ago, DakotaHale said:

> I would forbid all US businesses or foreign businesses operating in the US from conducting business in Russia.
That's scary to think about

It's a scary situation. The US put similar sanctions on Iran. Act like a pariah state, you'll get treated like one. Although, it may be a bit far for exactly what's needed. A lot of companies are pulling out as a result of public pressure or their own will. 

[vcczar]

Curious what @jvikings1 would do, as he marked that he'd do other things. His responses seem rather weak on Russia otherwise.

[jvikings1]

1 minute ago, vcczar said:

Curious what @jvikings1 would do, as he marked that he'd do other things. His responses seem rather weak on Russia otherwise.

I'd be willing to sell weapons/arms/ammo to the Ukrainians (but not give them away with US taxpayer funds; also, no financial aid handouts).

I would also be careful how I target Russia with sanctions. Blocking oil imports would further crush the lower classes in America with higher gas prices. Maybe if we didn't unnecessarily close pipelines, this would be a potential option. But we cannot afford to further restrict the supply of oil right now. And further relying on OPEC is not a good option.

[Kitten]

I should have answered yes for Crimea. I read it as China lol my mistake. I'm getting old jk jk jk.

[DakotaHale]

17 minutes ago, Patine said:

I did fill it out. And my results, and everyone else's, will actually be brought up when I make an interesting thread when I return in a few hours. *ominous music*

Mega based and surprised pilled

[Timur]

I would not send in the navy to blockade Crimea. Turkey has already blocked the Black Sea.

[MrPotatoTed]

7 hours ago, Patine said:

Turkey is not a true ally to Russia, Ukraine, or NATO. They cannot be trusted, and should be watched very carefully. Their Neo-Ottomanism is, in intent if not in scope, potentially as much of a problem going forward as Putin's Neo-Sovietism.

“The Next 100 Years” agrees with you. Ha.  Following collapse of Russia (which seems more realistic today than it did when the book came out in 2008) and China, Turkey moves into the power vacuum and ultimately becomes one of our opponents in WWIII like 70 years from now.

[MrPotatoTed]

16 hours ago, vcczar said:

I would do more if they strike US soil, troops, or a nation outside of the US obviously. 

I call myself a quasi-pacifist, but I've always said I support intervention in humanitarian crises. This is a completely unjust war. 

...Is Ukraine not a nation outside of the US?  I think maybe I'm not understanding what you meant there.

[MrPotatoTed]

15 hours ago, Hestia said:

A no-fly zone is tricky. The feasible way it could have been instated would have been at the very beginning of the conflict, or before it started. If NATO had made a serious, ready to back it up, statement that they would defend Ukraine's skies, it is possible it would have deterred Russia from attempting to operate in them. Trying to put it in while the fighting is ongoing is considerably more dangerous and is extremely risky.

We have also seen that Ukraine is incredibly capable on their own. Anti-aircraft weapons should be sent en masse to Ukraine - a no-fly zone may not be needed in a case where their anti-aircraft are blowing Russians out of the sky consistently. The US should be training Ukrainian pilots that may not be needed right now to operate more advanced aircraft that the US could lend them in the future. The US should be prepared to do whatever it takes to get Poland, Bulgaria and Slovakia to hand over their MiGs to Ukraine - including replacing them with our own aircraft as soon as possible. It's a win-win for all involved. The eastern flank is now considerably more beefed up, and Ukraine has more planes on their hands to defend themselves.

Moldova should be granted immediate accession into NATO. Their relationship with Transnistria is considerably warmer than Georgia with South Ossetia/Abkhazia, or obviously Ukraine and Donetsk/Luhansk. The odds that Moldova is attacked because of a Transnistrian guise is incredibly low. Moldova in NATO would deter Russia from even thinking about placing a hit on Moldova next. Sweden and Finland as well, should they prove willing and submit an application.

More refugees should be granted immediate settlement to the United States as soon as possible. Moldova, Poland, Hungary, etc. should not be expected to handle it alone.

If Russia uses chemical weapons against Ukraine, a no-fly zone should be implemented immediately, regardless of the status of the war. 

This is a very long term plan for a country that will not exist in the long term.  The time to train pilots was five years ago.

[Hestia]

Just now, MrPotatoTed said:

This is a very long term plan for a country that will not exist in the long term.  The time to train pilots was five years ago.

You are much more depressive on the future of Ukraine than I am  US sources say Russia's committed 95% of their assembled force into Ukraine, and yet hasn't made progress in days. Mass protests are taking place in occupied Ukrainian cities. I think combined with the economic freefall in Russia, their lack of success in the war, and the Russian peoples' distaste for the war as bodybags return to Russia, this war may end in a very different way than people think. Then we can train the Ukrainians in peacetime. 

[vcczar]

4 minutes ago, MrPotatoTed said:

...Is Ukraine not a nation outside of the US?  I think maybe I'm not understanding what you meant there.

I'm saying I would do more than what I selected in the poll if Russia strikes the US. 

[MrPotatoTed]

1 minute ago, Hestia said:

You are much more depressive on the future of Ukraine than I am  US sources say Russia's committed 95% of their assembled force into Ukraine, and yet hasn't made progress in days. Mass protests are taking place in occupied Ukrainian cities. I think combined with the economic freefall in Russia, their lack of success in the war, and the Russian peoples' distaste for the war as bodybags return to Russia, this war may end in a very different way than people think. Then we can train the Ukrainians in peacetime. 

I see Putin as a Trump like figure -- possibly a more competent one, though that perception may be due to the lack of freedom of the press in Russia.  Either way, I do not see him admitting defeat, saying "Sorry guys!!" and heading home.  He will make Ukraine pay, one way or the other.  

[MrPotatoTed]

In my view, any action that will take more than five days to implement is too late.

That's not to say that I think the war is necessarily over in five days.  But that there is not five days to spare.

[Hestia]

1 minute ago, MrPotatoTed said:

I see Putin as a Trump like figure -- possibly a more competent one, though that perception may be due to the lack of freedom of the press in Russia.  Either way, I do not see him admitting defeat, saying "Sorry guys!!" and heading home.  He will make Ukraine pay, one way or the other.  

I don't think he will either - but you can't make Ukraine pay when your tanks are being ambushed, you're running out of fuel because your supply lines are being bombed by drones, and you can't repair broken equipment because of Western sanctions. There are a lot of successful people in Russia, oligarchs, generals, government officials, that are seeing just how poorly this war is going. When it hits their pocketbooks and their fortunes, I am going to guess that their calculus may start changing. 

[MrPotatoTed]

3 minutes ago, Hestia said:

I don't think he will either - but you can't make Ukraine pay when your tanks are being ambushed, you're running out of fuel because your supply lines are being bombed by drones, and you can't repair broken equipment because of Western sanctions. There are a lot of successful people in Russia, oligarchs, generals, government officials, that are seeing just how poorly this war is going. When it hits their pocketbooks and their fortunes, I am going to guess that their calculus may start changing. 

From your lips to God's ears.  

Personally, I take the historical view which is that those who disagree with Putin tend to die an early death.

[Hestia]

1 minute ago, MrPotatoTed said:

From your lips to God's ears.  

Personally, I take the historical view which is that those who disagree with Putin tend to die an early death.

Those people tend to be a bit more outspoken than I hope these people will be 😛 

[pilight]

On 3/7/2022 at 2:38 AM, Patine said:

Turkey is not a true ally to Russia, Ukraine, or NATO. They cannot be trusted, and should be watched very carefully. Their Neo-Ottomanism is, in intent if not in scope, potentially as much of a problem going forward as Putin's Neo-Sovietism.

Turkey is a member of NATO

[pilight]

On 3/7/2022 at 11:07 AM, MrPotatoTed said:

This is a very long term plan for a country that will not exist in the long term.  The time to train pilots was five years ago.

The US has had advisors in Ukraine training their military personnel since the Obama administration