Student Debt Think Tank

[vcczar]

If you were conscripted to join a DC think tank to resolve the student debt crisis today and for the future, what would you advise? 

 

[jnewt]

For 1, I would support Sanders's plan but with the caveat that loans taken out that went towards earning a graduate degree that leads to a high-paying job (I'm specifically thinking of MDs and MBAs) wouldn't be forgiven. Of course, not all MBAs are created equal though. For example, an "MBA" from Argosy University isn't worth the paper it's printed on, let alone the absurd amounts of loans that these for-profit schools dupe students into taking out, so loans taken out to go there should be forgiven. That brings me to another point: for-profit higher education should be federally abolished. Almost all of these "colleges" are predatory scammers, and the few that aren't can and should just transition to not-for-profit status.

For number 3, I would like to see public college become tuition-free. However, the more I think about it, the more I think that this would kill small private schools, and thus reduce choice for students. For example, if UMass-Amherst were completely tuition-free, I don't think there's any way my parents would have even allowed me to go anywhere else, and I think a lot of other kids' parents would have been the same or they themselves would have thought the same. With such a huge influx of kids who would have gone to private schools then opting to go to state schools, lots of private schools, especially the smaller ones, wouldn't be able to support themselves. But I also don't think transitioning private colleges to tuition-free is something that could be done as quickly as public colleges, so that rules out making private colleges tuition-free. I suppose my best suggestion is to abolish student loans and drastically increase subsidies to both public and private colleges and universities (though public schools should always receive significantly more, as they do now).

[vcczar]

Wondering what @jvikings1 “other” suggestions are. 

[Rezi]

To clarify my answer for 1:

Ideally, I would support clearing all student debt, but now isn't the time. In the next few years, I would support 10k or less, but we're in an inflationary period and the last thing we need to be doing is massively cutting off debt and giving people more spending money, which would only further inflation. Hell, the inflation is already just decreasing the value of everybody's loans so technically it's helping them 😛

[jnewt]

4 minutes ago, Rezi said:

Hell, the inflation is already just decreasing the value of everybody's loans so technically it's helping them 😛

Ummmm that might make sense if our wages were keeping up with inflation, but they're not, making it even more difficult to pay back our debt...

[Rezi]

4 minutes ago, jnewt said:

Ummmm that might make sense if our wages were keeping up with inflation, but they're not, making it even more difficult to pay back our debt...

That's a separate issue. Wages should of course be keeping up with inflation.

Unless wages are going down however, then inflation can't have a negative impact on the value of your debt, assuming debtors are at least covering their interest. It would either be a positive or neutral effect.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Rezi

[jnewt]

2 minutes ago, Rezi said:

That's a separate issue. Wages should of course be keeping up with inflation.

Unless wages are going down however, then inflation can't have a negative impact on paying back debt, assuming debtors are at least covering their interest. It would either be a positive or neutral effect.

Yea, so as you can see above, wages are in fact going down (i.e. not keeping up with inflation). If wages were staying the same or increasing (i.e. keeping up with inflation), then sure, it could be a neutral or positive effect. But when wages are going down, inflation absolutely has a negative effect on paying back student debt.

[Rezi]

3 minutes ago, jnewt said:

Yea, so as you can see above, wages are in fact going down (i.e. not keeping up with inflation). If wages were staying the same or increasing (i.e. keeping up with inflation), then sure, it could be a neutral or positive effect. But when wages are going down, inflation absolutely has a negative effect on paying back student debt.

Inflation reduces the value of all debt. The money is worth less than it was when you took out said loans. Wages aren't keeping up with inflation and their real value is decreasing, but they aren't physically going down (i.e, no one is going from making 45k a year to 40k a year during an inflationary period). You're being fucked on everything else (Literally everything that isn't debt), which can make it harder to find money to pay back on debt but inflation still benefits borrowers because the value of the money is decreasing. 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Rezi

[jnewt]

Just now, Rezi said:

Inflation reduces the value of all debt. The money is worth less than it was when you took out said loans. Wages aren't keeping up with inflation and their real value is decreasing, but they aren't physically going down (i.e, no one is going from making 45k a year to 40k a year during an inflationary period). You're being fucked on everything else (Literally everything that isn't debt) but inflation still benefits borrowers because the value of the money is decreasing. 

It does not benefit borrowers because real wages are also declining, which reduces their ability to pay back loans. The value of the loan is irrelevant.

[Pringles]

Being in major amounts of debt to the point I can't fathom paying it off in my lifetime is something of a phobia, major fear of mine. Like credit cards or aliens invading Earth kinda fear. Doomsday meteor hits Earth fear. 

Half-joking aside. I'm trying hard to keep my life debt free. For going on 2 years basically of college life, I have managed well so far. Scholarships, savings, etc. have kept me afloat. I'm fortunate to have parents willing to help me but I feel obligated to do my best to try and do my fair share. 

So I will continue my strategy of working hard, makin money, and bein on the grind so to speak. 

With that said, I am generally apathetic to this issue. Because I don't feel too affected by it even though one might think I should. The grants from COVID helped me out, I gladly take them as a part of my school refunds and save them lol. But if Bernie Sanders were President tomorrow and made college completely free... my literal reaction would be: "Ok."

I'd have many more concerns if Bernie Sanders was elected President. Many more important concerns than student debt. I sympathize with others in this issue, but I don't really know what I can do for them. And I'd rather not see us cancel it all and ruin this countries fiscal situation even further. I'm just trying to live life and work hard. And I think most Americans are as well. 

But that's just my opinion, and my experience.

[jnewt]

This is just something I'd like to add to stress how terrible for-profit colleges are and how much they're to blame for the student debt crisis: https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2021/03/08/a-new-report-reveals-the-false-promises-of-for-profit-colleges/?sh=35a2071735fc

Just look at the proportion each category of schools are horrible investments:

"Among public four-year colleges, the majority (61.8%) are low-price, high-quality institutions. The next largest grouping (27.9%) are low-price and low-quality; 7.9% are high-price and high-quality and only 2.5% are high-price and low-quality institutions.

Among private non-profit four-year institutions, 71.8% are high-price and high-quality, 11.9% are high-price and low-quality, 11.8% are low-price and high-quality, and just 4.6% are low-price and low-quality.

Among for-profit four-year colleges, about four out of five (79.8%) are high-price, low-quality institutions. Another 14.0% are high-price and high-quality, 4.4% are low-price and low-quality, and only 1.8% are low-price, high-quality institutions."

[Pringles]

27 minutes ago, Patine said:

What exactly fears are you speaking of, here, if I may ask? This sounds like bad corporatist-generated-stereotypes and McCarthyist scare tactics to me, but since you don't exactly specify WHAT you're referring to, I can't judge FOR SURE. Thus, I am inquiring for details.

Among other things, he's a dotard. Why are you so concerned with my concerns? Which you referred to as fears? This is why I'm confused all the time.

[Kitten]

3 minutes ago, Pringles said:

Among other things, he's a dotard. Why are you so concerned with my concerns? Which you referred to as fears? This is why I'm confused all the time.

I am also confused

[mark2]

30 minutes ago, Patine said:

What exactly fears are you speaking of, here, if I may ask? This sounds like bad corporatist-generated-stereotypes and McCarthyist scare tactics to me, but since you don't exactly specify WHAT you're referring to, I can't judge FOR SURE. Thus, I am inquiring for details.

His fears are completely justified, as such decockroungist ideology is going to cause a marcoted pacinator. If the silocien wisets listened to such extremist warsanic bullocks our vanized world would be no more.

[Pringles]

3 minutes ago, Patine said:

Somehow, I'm dubious of that claim. At least as you see it. Being a dotard is something I've pointed out. But you've never criticized Sanders, Clinton, Trump, and Biden in the same sentence for otherwise undefined purposes. And I said your concerns SEEM like fears because of context, but I asked for clarification due to lack of specific statements. And, I have a hard time believing this is why you're, "confused," all the time.

Well in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different way and without fighting and by trying to make it clear, and by considering each and every one's opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say.
 

[Kitten]

3 minutes ago, Patine said:

 

And these two are ones who are definitely contributing nothing of value, so I won't even ask them for any clarification, like I asked you, @Pringles.

You're mean

[mark2]

Just now, Patine said:

 

And these two are ones who are definitely contributing nothing of value, so I won't even ask them for any clarification, like I asked you, @Pringles.

How is it, Patine, that calling out Bernie's minderpoleian formons requires you to felotter on about such messages not contributing? Which, admically enough, itself does not contribute to the discussion. Your ficiest dismissal of agreements and voices of concern is itself membley disturbing. 

[Pringles]

Just now, Patine said:

I reiterate my recent advice that it's likely about time for you to grow up. I don't know what else I can say right now.

But did I remember to listen to those who forgot what I was going to say, that way I can remember to forget what I was going to say which was that I don't remember?

[mark2]

1 minute ago, Patine said:

Back to being blocked with you, troll.

I don't see what leads you to believe this is a simple troll. As a matter of fact, your counconving extremism is deeply disturbing to me, and I hope you can get help. But, now that you've revealed your true colours as an enemy of justice for all, an enemy of accountability of Government, an enemy of the rule of law, an enemy of opposition to ALL abuses, atrocities, and crimes of state by ANY Government, an enemy of you Republic, Constitution, nation, and the principles it was founded, and - yes - an EXTREMIST because of this, I will now treat you as what you have unveiled yourself, here to be, in debate, and I enjoin everyone else on this forum who has any sense of reason, ethics, justice, and moral fibre, to do the same. You have just outed yourself as the unhinged extremist trying, in vain, to do it to me - because ONLY an unhinged extremist would possibly support the ideals you've admitted to -- and all the monstrous consequences that come of it - as being not only acceptable, but right...

[Pringles]

1 minute ago, Patine said:

You do understand that you've, by far, exceeded me as the most toxic and troublemaking poster on this forum months ago? Or did you forget that, too?

Look man, here's the deal. All I know is what corn pop said to me, and it was now, who's hot, who's not, tell me who rock, who sell out in the stores? You tell me who flopped, who copped the blue drop, whose got jewels got rocks? 

The same old pimp, Mase... you know ain't nothing change but my limp, can't stop till I see my name on a blimp; Guarantee a million sales, call it level up...

[Kitten]

Just now, Pringles said:

Look man, here's the deal. All I know is what corn pop said to me, and it was now, who's hot, who's not, tell me who rock, who sell out in the stores? You tell me who flopped, who copped the blue drop, whose got jewels got rocks? 

The same old pimp, Mase... you know ain't nothing change but my limp, can't stop till I see my name on a blimp; Guarantee a million sales, call it level up...

Corn pop let's rock that student debt lol

[Pringles]

Just now, Kitten said:

Corn pop let's rock that student debt lol

did you cop the blue drop?

[Pringles]

1 minute ago, Patine said:

Get a life!

B-I-G P-O-P-P-A, no info for the DEA, federal agents call me mad cause I'm FLAGRANT, tap my cell and the phone in the basement (like that patriot act), my team supreme, stay CLEAN.

Triple beam lyrical dream, I be that, cat you see at all events bent, gats in holsters, girl on shoulders,

Playboy I told ya, mere mics to me

[Kitten]

4 minutes ago, Pringles said:

did you cop the blue drop?

Popping the blues over the shoes.

[jvikings1]

12 hours ago, vcczar said:

Wondering what @jvikings1 “other” suggestions are. 

Eliminate access to "easy money" from federal loans, thus forcing universities to keep their prices competitive.

Hold colleges/universities accountable for misleading students (when it comes to the value of their degree program or in financial aid). Use endowments to repay students who were subject to unfair practices.