In what ways do you deviate from your political ideology?

[vcczar]

If you are a Democrat, Republican, Libertarian or Libertarian Republican, Green, etc. in what way do you deviate from your ideology?

I'm just curious. 

Here's two ways I deviate from someone who is Progressive, although I also deviate in other ways too. 

1. I have no issue with people without a record of mental health or criminal record from carrying fire arms in public. I don't like guns. I've never owned a gun. I think ultimately guns should be replaced with non-lethal alternatives, if those alternative prove as efficient or better at knocking someone out for a long period of time (obviously, not killing them though. If not for the NRA, I think non-lethal firearms would be taking off the way alt-energy is. 

The thing that convince me to not be totally for an all-out gun ban, was when I read about a gun that took out someone who was about to shoot up a bunch of people in a theatre. If not for him, more than one person would be dead---possibly up to like 50. Prior to this, I was opposed complete to people possessing firearms. This doesn't mean I advocate the carrying of fire arms. I just think that trained, sane, calm, and mature people shouldn't have some types of firearms taken away from them. 

This said, I am for regulations that will reduce accidental killings--especially instances in which children kill themselves on accident--, reduce killings of unarmed black people, which occurs at a higher rate than among whites, and things like that. 

2. I approve of some torture during interrogation of terrorists. However, the conditions have to be such that there's no real alternative. I was convinced here by Philip Bobbitt (LBJ's nephew), who presented a scenario to a fellow Democrat, but one opposed to torture in all cases. Bobbitt said, something to the effect, if someone tells me that he has a bomb that is going to go off in 24 hours in a high-population density area, and he won't tell me where it is, I'm going to do whatever it takes to get that information out of him. This scenario stuck because I would have probably done the same to the terrorist, whether it was legal or not. My instinct to save lives would have forced me to get it out of him. Prior to this, I was opposed to torture in every situation. 

I could go on to mention other ways I deviate, but two is enough for now. 

What about you?

[ConservativeElector2]

I would have to think more deeply about that but I hate hunting or bull fighting. I like traditions and historical stuff like that and I get the argument that banning it would once again rob us off traditional customs, but plainly spoken it's simply stupid and barbaric if not done to survive. I expect more of our world to be honest.

I am also in favor of reduced meat consumption. That has various reasons but most importantly I consider meat as unhealthy and try to avoid it as much as possible.

I am supportive of vaccine development. 

I support online classes and working from home office, although conservatives mostly argue for going to school/college and work places. I admit that my support here is purely selfish because I want to use the time needed to go to college and back in a better way. 

That's a good way to start I guess.

[ShortKing]

I'd consider myself a right-of-center Republican, but there are a few ways I deviate from modern GOP orthodoxy:

Immigration, I'm a lot closer to where Reagan and Bush were than modern Republicans. Increased immigration is good for the economy, and especially at a time that birth rates are falling, it's beneficial for population growth. I'm strongly supportive of granting amnesty to every non-violent undocumented immigrant in America, making it easier and not as expensive to immigrate to America, and greatly increasing the number of immigrants we allow in every year. Refugees I feel similarly, but I don understand that depending on the context, there may be additional security concerns that would have to be addressed.

Climate change, I think some of the alarmist rhetoric goes overboard, but we do need to reorient our energy policies to reflect that we know of and can invest in cleaner energy sources, particularly nuclear, and need to take it more seriously as a party. 

Foreign policy, in both parties there's been a surge of noninterventionism/isolationism, but particularly pronounced in the GOP. I think Trump signing a peace deal with the Taliban was foolish and counter-productive, I think the Afghanistan withdrawal was poorly executed but was also fundamentally a mistake, and while I think the Biden admin has been handling the Ukraine crisis very well lately, it's worth remembering how slow to the take they were in 2021 when Putin was building up troops and logistical support along the border with Ukraine. I understand why a hawkish foreign policy approach has fallen out of favor since the Iraq War, but I am still a hawk, and while I also favor foreign aid and diplomacy more than many of the hawks in my own party, I don't think the Democratic Party's approach has necessarily done that well. 

[WVProgressive]

I think the largest difference between me, and the average Progressive would be the fact that I’m pro-life.

[vcczar]

3 minutes ago, WVProgressive said:

I think the largest difference between me, and the average Progressive would be the fact that I’m pro-life.

In all cases?

[MrPotatoTed]

I used to be a Republican (and still defend W. Bush's foreign policy, though not his domestic).  I then became a moderate independent around 2007 as I began to realize Republican "family values" were so harmful to those outside the Republican view of family.  Now I'm strongly Democrat because the Republican party completely disintegrated in 2016 and it is clear that it will never return.

But despite being a proud Democrat now, I'm strongly against legalizing drugs.  Plus there's that whole "defending Bush" thing.

Really, I would still be a proudly independent moderate, finding things to like and dislike in both parties...if the Republican party still existed.  

[DakotaHale]

6 minutes ago, vcczar said:

In all cases?

Not sure what the Libertarian stance on abortion is (probably pro-choice, even though it violates the NAP) but I'm pro-life in all cases.

I'm about as far-left on all other social issues as possible (legalizing weed, amphetamines, cocaine, and shrooms, decriminalizing all others; legalizing sex work and prostitution; anti-war; anti-death penalty; anti-private prisons, pro-crime/police reform; pro-gay marriage and adoption etc.), and am mostly right-wing on economic issues (with some exceptions, I support social security, social safety nets and maternity leave programs and such, even if I think they need reformed). I just happen to value economic issues largely more important than social issues so for the most part I'm regarded as right-wing when honestly if all issues were given equal weight I could technically be considered center-left.

[Rezi]

6 minutes ago, DakotaHale said:

Not sure what the Libertarian stance on abortion is (probably pro-choice, even though it violates the NAP) but I'm pro-life in all cases.

The general sense I get is that Libertarians are rather split on abortion. It depends on whether you care more about violating the NAP in aborting the child, or more about the Government interference in stopping women from getting abortions.

[WVProgressive]

15 minutes ago, vcczar said:

In all cases?

I’m fine with therapeutic abortions, where the abortion is performed in order to save the mother’s life, but other than that, yes I believe abortion should be illegal.

[ShortKing]

11 minutes ago, MrPotatoTed said:

I used to be a Republican (and still defend W. Bush's foreign policy, though not his domestic).

Where do you land on economic issues?

I largely agree, ig I just find tbe Democratic Party a bit too inhospitable for conservatism in any significant degree, and there are a number of Republicans I still strongly align with. Romney, Ducey, Mike Gallagher, etc.

[MrPotatoTed]

6 minutes ago, ShortKing said:

Where do you land on economic issues?

Depends on the issue.  I have a unique perspective as I was the child of teenaged parents -- we lived in a basement they rented from someone they found in a newspaper, for the first few years of my life.  But they rose up to be middle class by the time I was in high school.  Then in my early 20's, I was homeless and lived in my car for months.  Joined the military for a meal and a roof, but that turned out to be my golden ticket.  After six years of service, I was able to use my Veteran status and military experience to land a job I love paying over $100k per year, and now live an extremely comfortable suburban life.  

So, having been all over the map financially, I have a lot of conflicting thoughts on economic issues. Ha.  I'm much more firm on foreign policy (generally conservative) and social policy (generally liberal, other than drugs).

[vcczar]

32 minutes ago, ShortKing said:

Where do you land on economic issues?

 

22 minutes ago, MrPotatoTed said:

Depends on the issue.  I have a unique perspective

My economic stance has a lot to do with my experience as well. My dad used to be very wealthy until I was about 5, 6, or 7, and then he lost everything. I remember we didn't have heating sometimes and our car didn't have a heater or AC. As my dad was about 45 when I was born, by the time he lost all his money, no one wanted to hire him, especially since he had almost too much experience for the jobs he was trying to get. My dad never had a solid job for the rest of his life. 

My grandparents helped us afford staying in our neighborhood, which was and is the wealthiest neighborhood in Dallas, TX. It was difficult going to school there because I was like one of 10 poor kids in a class of 330. Of these, about 130 of them had Donald Trump mentalities. Trump really reminds me of a large portion of the people I went to high school with. I mostly ignored what people said to me or about me. I might have been the only kid that didn't get an allowance or didn't go on Summer vacations. 

After college and grad school, which I liked WAAAY more than K-12, I went to NYC and worked a lot of prestigious but low-paying jobs (by NYC standards) at Huffington Post, Pace University, the Strand Bookstore. I was also jobless for 18 months, living on couches, eating once a day. I ended up looking emaciated. 

I'll skip several years and mention that at present, I probably don't make 30% of the money @MrPotatoTed makes and I have three jobs and work constantly with few breaks and no days off. 

My economic philosophy is definitely in favor economic reform in the mold of Warren or Sanders. UBI or guaranteed minimum income, and abolishing student loan debt, and those sorts of things would be quite live-saving for me. 

Had to type this kind of fast, so forgive me if it lacks specifics or coherence. Had to rush through a lot of my history.

[vcczar]

And I’d like to follow up on my economic philosophy in that I think I support policies that best fulfill “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”  Low wages and no wages create the opposite. 

[ShortKing]

I’m not sure how much of my economics is owed to my life experiences. On one hand, I’m fairly moderate conservative overall, but I’ve also seen firsthand the ways in which private charity and social capital are more effective safety nets than clunky bureacratic programs that often end up too convoluted to use or inadvertently creating poverty traps for the people they’re trying to help. 

My instincts are generally conservative but I think I’d be open to almost any policy prescription if I think the circumstances call for it. For example, I know some folks believe Obama’s stimulus package in his first term was too small for the problem it was trying to address. I find that a defensible reading of the situation, even if I don’t necessarily agree. Biden’s team clearly had that in mind when crafting the ARP, in fact many on the left still called it too modest in scope. Clearly though, their reading of the economic landscape was wrong. Demand didn’t need to be stimulated to that degree, and it’s clear now that amount of spending helped exacerbate the inflationary pressures we were already facing. That’s just one example, and there are examples where left wing economic policies have worked, I just personally lean right, and under the current circumstances, I find myself shifting a litte further right on economics.

[The Blood]

Just broadly defining myself as a progressive, I guess I buck the orthodox on a few points.

 

Similar to V I'm not in favor of some of the gun proposals thrown out by Democrats. I support basic regulations and restrictions, but proposed bans or heavy-handed regulations just aren't sound policy in a country with as strong a gun culture and as many gun owners as America, and I also just don't believe it's the place of the government to take those steps when there are other ways we can limit gun violence in America.

 

I also don't have a problem with US military spending, and I think we can actually continue to increase defense spending. I don't want to just throw money at the DoD, and I'm not exactly a hawk when it comes to military interventions and foreign involvement, but I think it's very important for the US to maintain its current position militarily while further diversifying and investing in R&D to maintain a consistent edge over adversaries such as China. The fact is we're spending less on the military as a share of our GDP than we have in past eras, if we aren't diverting a harmful amount of resources to maintain the most powerful and advanced military on Earth, then from a cost-benefit analysis I think continued investment is worth it, especially investment in strengthening NATO and supporting endangered democracies worldwide given current circumstances.

 

Finally, I don't have a problem with charter schools. I want to hold them to a high standard as I would any school, but really that's what I want, schools that deliver, if a charter school can do that then I have no problem with public funds going to support it. We should invest in public schools as well, obviously, I think education in America needs serious replenishment, but if a charter is providing a unique and capable education to its students, that should be welcomed. It's not public versus charter in my mind, it's good schools versus bad ones, and there are good charters and bad charters, just as there are good public schools and bad public schools. We just need to be delivering more of the good schools to parents and students.

Edited May 8, 2022 by The Blood

[Timur]

As someone who identifies more as a Republican than a Democrat, I support universal healthcare, welfare (poor people seem to be supportive of it), common sense restrictions on guns (like background checks), net neutrality, higher taxes for corporations, and more funding for education. I am pro-immigration, and opposed to Trump. I also believe in climate change, though I think some of the rhetoric is too much doom-and-gloom hysteria.

Edited May 8, 2022 by Timur

[Pringles]

Oh where to start. Well, first to understand me is to understand my journey. Many today would call me a Moderate Conservative. I fancy the terms myself. However, if one wants to call me a Neo-Con, or a Conservative, or Center-Right, I won't dissociate myself from the terms. 

Being a youngster on the internet since the age of 9 I wasn't too knowledgeable on politics as I was history. But thanks to the internet as I got older and into my teens, especially in 2016, I was this weird morph of buying into left wing populism, to supporting Trump. I'd be a lot edgier today if I stayed in this same mindset. 

However, in 2018 I traveled to Europe with my family. Visiting Eastern Europe which happens to be where another side of my family resides that I had never saw. As I am half-Slav. Seeing the world and the experiences of others sparked a change in me I suppose. Along with a little help from some of the best friends I made throughout my time online. 

Seeing the the poverty of Eastern Europe strengthened the deep anti-communist, anti-authoritarian sentiment that still resides in me today. 

Anyways. Today I am a Republican. Despite being ashamed of my party for Trump. I was raised on the concept one should never hold loyalty to a party. But to an idea. I remain loyal to my ideology and my version of conservatism as I see fit. That is what I fight for. And I vote in line accordingly, despite voting for the opposite sides at times when duty calls, as in 2020, and looking back, 2016, despite being a very different person in 2016. 

Today I am increasingly combatant against isolationism. Political extremes that are seen in both parties. And in the past year, staunchly anti-populist. I suppose I've realized in myself, that I am very fundamentally conservative. Despite straying from it in some of my actions at least in the modern interpretations of it. 

When it comes to education, I have very different takes as to more funding for education, and anti-national standards, standardized testing, all of that, etc. I want to see schools focus on the individual, rather than their SAT grade. When it comes to immigration I'm all for it. While I do perceive illegal immigration as a problem, I'm much more lenient about the matter than many in the Republican Party. Despite being an economic conservative I'm all for infrastructure spending, though many Republican's are for it as well. (As seen in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill). 

I support the legalization of marijuana. I am largely opposed to culture war issues and initiatives. Even as a pro-life individual. I support electoral college reform such as proportionally allocating electoral votes based on the PV's in the states. I support ending gerrymandering. Of course, this is obvious, but I staunchly oppose Trump. 

While I love tax cuts, I also like paying down the debt, and dreaming of closing the deficit. Though I am realistic about it I would say.

I support same-sex marriage. No government ought to trample on the rights of one's ability to marry.

I support social security, and safeguarding the program for generations to come. 

And finally, as I'm running out of thoughts, many conservatives today may also find themselves as libertarians to some degree. However I am largely critical of the Libertarian ideology. Both socially, and economically. I do believe if there is any element of libertarian to me, it is civic libertarianism. As seen in my obvious support of civil rights, and support of same sex marriage along with legalizing marijuana, etc.

So I suppose that sums me up. I've had quite the journey. But this is where I am, and this is where I take my stand. 😛 I differ on many issues with the Republican Party today, and even many modern conservative principles. But fundamentally, I remain conservative. A moderate conservative.

Edited May 8, 2022 by Pringles

[ConservativeElector2]

I came up with another thing in which I deviate from some conservatives. I can see why people want to ban games like GTA, but I heavily relied on playing them especially in high school. GTA is one of my all-time favorites, which I still play again once in a while. I have a lot of fond memories about playing these games so I don't want them to get banned lol for me it's just a game and I don't think these kind of games had a negative impact on me. 

[Zenobiyl]

Economically leftist Republican, and I differ most from my party in that I don’t have any strong feelings for or against on the illegal immigration issue. I personally see it as a distraction, and would prefer if voters and politicians focused on other stuff instead.

[pilight]

I don't deviate from my ideology.  I deviate strongly from any party's ideology.

[Ishan]

I deviate from my ideology is how I am somewhat pro-life and oppose Roe (but I consider the decision to be a partisan decision). Aside from that I don't see how I would deviate from a typical center-libertarian aside from possibly supporting Single Payer. 

[vcczar]

4 hours ago, pilight said:

I don't deviate from my ideology.  I deviate strongly from any party's ideology.

Ok, I'll change the question for you, then. What is one or more political views that you have that have changed/evolved over the last, say 4 or 5 years?

[themiddlepolitical]

Progressive

1)Though I believe that training and mental health checks and background checks should be required, I think gun control when it comes to the lefts views is too far. Maybe it's cause I grew up in the most dangerous town in my state. 

2) I am pro-nuclear energy, and somewhat for fracking. Though I believe full transition to renewable energy is needed ASAP, And I believe fully in climate change. 

3) I think cancel culture is a little too much. 

[MrPotatoTed]

57 minutes ago, themiddlepolitical said:

3) I think cancel culture is a little too much. 

The term "cancel culture" is really good marketing by really bad people.

[MrPotatoTed]

On the topic of political marketing, it's much more than just election ads of course.

I forget if I read it in a book or a news article, but Obama admitted that he actually liked that people called The Affordable Care Act "Obamacare."  It was a nice stroke to his ego to have people putting his name on something that was helping so many.  

He says it took him to long to recognize that just allowing his name to be used as a shorthand for the act would naturally turn his detractors strongly against it.  Rookie mistake.  He should have insisted that it always be referred to as The Affordable Care Act,  at least in the mainstream media so to speak -- because regardless of party affiliation, it's much harder to say you're against "affordable care."

Likewise, in his autobiography "Decision Points", W. Bush reflects a lot on political marketing.  One prime example he refers to is the PATRIOT Act.  He talks about how some marketing genius (though he may be using the term somewhat sarcastically) in Congress came up with the acronym, because the general public doesn't read bills so you need to put the selling point in the title.  Being anti-PATRIOT wasn't something people wanted to be in 2001-2002.

Interestingly, Bush also reflects that while Republicans used to be the great political marketers, they were becoming much worse at it now (when he wrote the book, during the Obama years).  He felt his party needed to become more serious about their marketing efforts -- choosing the right words, avoiding the wrong ones (like "legitimate rape") that blow up.  Interestingly, I guess this was vindicated by the fact that Donald Trump won in 2016 -- he's a fucking monster, but he knows marketing.  "Make America Great Again", "Lock Her Up", "Build The Wall", etc etc.  

(Somewhat comically, while Bush was right that his party would need someone who knew marketing, he also spends significant time emphasizing that candidates will be Obama's generation or younger going forward -- the time for his own generation and especially McCain's generation had passed.  Obviously, that's funny in retrospect as Biden and Trump are both older than Bush.)