Part 8: 100 Most Influential Ranking

[vcczar]

@vcczar @ShortKing @WVProgressive @ConservativeElector2 @mark2 @jnewt @Mark_W @OrangeP47 @Arkansas Progressive @A man from Colorado @SilentLiberty @Rodja @DakotaHale @jvikings1 @themiddlepolitical @Edouard @Vols21 @Timur @Patine @10centjimmy

Here's the 1st part of the 100 most influential rankings. 

Rules:

- Please keep discussion on topic. 

- No trolling. 

- No complaining, although constructive criticism is okay. 

- No personal attacks.

- No commenting without voting. 

The nominees: 

Deng Xiaoping	Initiated the economic-market reforms that made China the production capital of the world by the 21st century and a major power
Desmond Tutu	Archbishop who was influential in helping end Apartheid in South African and advocated other human rights in Africa and throughout the world.
Diana, Princess of Wales	Pop culture icon who has inspired worldwide volunteerism and awareness for causes such as helping victims of AIDS, cancer, and various illnesses
Donald Trump	Former president of the US known for MAGA-izing the United States
Donatello	Influential Renaissance sculptor, famous for creating the first standing nude statue since antiquity
DW Griffith	Pioneering film director of the Silent Movie era
Dwight D Eisenhower	Supreme Allied Commander during World War II that saw the defeat of Nazi Germany, the Empire of Japan, and their allies; As president, established NASA.
Edgar Allan Poe	His poetry and fiction are central to Romanticism, especially the Gothic subgenre; inspired science fiction and detective novels into become major genres of literature
Edward Jenner	the “Father of Immunology” for his creation of the smallpox vaccine, the world’ first vaccine.
Eleanor Roosevelt	Icononic human rights advocate with worldwide fame; arguably the most influential First Lady ever in the US

[OrangeP47]

As a lot of these people are relatively "modern" I had a lot of trouble deciding based upon my own "too soon to tell" rule.  I almost broke it for Trump, but after thinking about it, it really is too soon to tell what kind of legacy he will have, and I think I'm saying that free of personal biases about the man.  Other comments I want to make:  I feel like in both immunology and the end of Apartheid, those things were really big group efforts, and sure, while there are key figures, the fact that so many important people are involved in key developments dilutes any one individual.  Ironically, that same line of thought almost led me not to vote for Eisenhower, but I feel as if him being both a leading WW2 general, then President at a key time for the USA offsets those factors.

[vcczar]

5 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

As a lot of these people are relatively "modern" I had a lot of trouble deciding based upon my own "too soon to tell" rule.  I almost broke it for Trump, but after thinking about it, it really is too soon to tell what kind of legacy he will have, and I think I'm saying that free of personal biases about the man.  Other comments I want to make:  I feel like in both immunology and the end of Apartheid, those things were really big group efforts, and sure, while there are key figures, the fact that so many important people are involved in key developments dilutes any one individual.  Ironically, that same line of thought almost led me not to vote for Eisenhower, but I feel as if him being both a leading WW2 general, then President at a key time for the USA offsets those factors.

I think Trump will have to win a 2nd term to have any shot at even a top 500 most influential. He's more influential than Biden since Biden isn't really doing anything to be influential, except perhaps in having defeated Trump and prevented Trump from doing more than he's already done. 

[OrangeP47]

4 minutes ago, vcczar said:

I think Trump will have to win a 2nd term to have any shot at even a top 500 most influential. He's more influential than Biden since Biden isn't really doing anything to be influential, except perhaps in having defeated Trump and prevented Trump from doing more than he's already done. 

To me it hinges on the question "Has US politics fundamentally shifted because of Trump?"  I think that can be answered with a "yes" undeniably, but a "yes" isn't a ticket into to the list.  You then have to follow up with "How much?" "For how long?" "Will it swing back quickly; slowly?" And many more.  These cannot be answered in a timely manner.  Some may take issue with this criteria being used to decide, but the inclusion of artists, architects, authors, etc on the list explicitly endorses this viewpoint, because without taking the long view, those individuals only made a handful of objects, however great they may be, which in no way compares to the actions of the more political entries.  Granted, I'm not really voting for those people anyway, but I do agree they at least belong in the discussion if we're taking such a long view as to include their contributions to how they influenced how others thought, and whatnot.

[Edouard]

I just think that it is important to recall that it's worldwide and all-time top 100. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Edouard

[DakotaHale]

Hot take: Eisenhower is top 50, maybe 40.

[ShortKing]

I'm surprised Desmond Tutu is rated so low, I think his work in theology and civil rights is pretty influential, but tough crowd ig

[vcczar]

17 minutes ago, ShortKing said:

I'm surprised Desmond Tutu is rated so low, I think his work in theology and civil rights is pretty influential, but tough crowd ig

Only top 100. He's make the list if it were the top 100 Theologians or top 100 Civil Rights people. 

[vcczar]

Need 5 more voters to move on to part 9

[Timur]

I'd say that Trump's victory seems to have helped a  rise of right wing populism in different parts of the world.

[vcczar]

4 minutes ago, Timur said:

I'd say that Trump's victory seems to have helped a  rise of right wing populism in different parts of the world.

It might be the reverse, however. 

[vcczar]

4 minutes ago, Timur said:

I'd say that Trump's victory seems to have helped a  rise of right wing populism in different parts of the world.

Arguably, RW movements worldwide might have aided Trump's rise. 

[vcczar]

4 more votes need for me to go to the next one. 

[vcczar]

2 more votes needed

[OrangeP47]

3 hours ago, Patine said:

Trump was not the beginning of the global right-wing populist vanguard in success. He was somewhere in the middle.

 

The way Trump came in and drastically changed a whole country's political landscape through a populist campaign to break a long-standing system to afterward be, at least in significant part, be about those who were pro-him and anti-him was already accomplished by Juan Peron in Argentina. "Peronista," and, "Contra-Peronista," are still labels used to define major parties there, today. Globally, speaking, it's not an innovative achievement of Trump's.

That's like saying chocolate pudding isn't an innovation because chocolate ice cream already exists.

[OrangeP47]

1 minute ago, Patine said:

Not really. It's more saying Trump doing it counts because he did the same thing in the U.S., and that alone should count more than the whole rest of the world. Frankly, Trump, as a politician, did nothing new or innovative, and his successes were only made possible by other incendiary populists. In terms of political leadership, he's a poseur and an emulator, and thus should not be ranked as high as some earlier ones just because he's American.

 

7 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

That's like saying chocolate pudding isn't an innovation because chocolate ice cream already exists.

...

In seriousness, though, I could make an argument for both ranking the forebearers high, and also ranking Trump higher just because he's American.  It's a moot point though because I didn't vote for him.

[OrangeP47]

9 minutes ago, Patine said:

Actually, I admit, I didn't check your votes, above, and only used a cropped sentence from your first post as a point to retort to in general debate. But if you didn't vote such, your argument above seems like you were definitely on the wire about the vote.

It's another one of my "ask me again in 2122" responses but I didn't say it verbatim this time.  I'm saying there's a possibility, with another century behind us, Trump COULD warrant being on the list.  I wouldn't hold my breath though.

[Edouard]

.....

Edited July 19, 2022 by Edouard