Part 39: 100 Most Influential

[vcczar]

@vcczar @ShortKing @WVProgressive @ConservativeElector2 @mark2 @jnewt @Mark_W @OrangeP47 @Arkansas Progressive @A man from Colorado @SilentLiberty @Rodja @DakotaHale @jvikings1 @themiddlepolitical @Edouard @Vols21 @Timur @Patine @10centjimmy

Here's the next part of the 100 most influential rankings. 

Rules:

- Please keep discussion on topic. 

- No trolling. 

- No complaining, although constructive criticism is okay. 

- No personal attacks.

- No commenting without voting.

Winston Churchill	arguably the earliest and leading major political figure to advocate against Nazi Germany and Cold War Soviet Russia, ensuring the containment of both expanding powers.
Wolfgang A Mozart	One of the most well-known and influential classical musicians. A common example of child prodigy and inexhaustible genius.
Woodrow Wilson	Architect of Wilsonian Democracy, which transition the US into an interventionist country; architect of the League of Nation's, which was later readapted as the United Nations; presided as the US became the financial country of the world, surpassing London; Presided during World War I.
Wright Bros	invented the first successful airplane.
Xi Jinping	Potentially the most powerful Chinese leader since Mao Zedong, possibly leading a China that could rival the US.
Yuri Gagarin	First human to ever exit Earth, inspiring later man-made missions into space
Zoroaster	Founder of the first monotheistic religion, which influenced later monotheistic religions; Also called "The Father of Ethics" and "The First Rationalist," first to mention a heaven, hell, free will, and judgment after death.

[vcczar]

@Patine please add your suggestions by the end of Friday, if possible. 

[vcczar]

1 minute ago, Patine said:

A few more added by editing the thread, but it's not Friday yet.

Ok, I'll wait until the end of Friday/Saturday morning to post any nominees by you and others, so feel free to keep adding them. I'll then probably need a day, actually, to type up descriptions for them. 

[pilight]

Rosalind Franklin should be added to Franklin, Watson, Crick

John Ford was a better and more influential film director than several who were listed.  Akira Kurosawa should be listed if any film makers are.

[SilentLiberty]

Damn I forgot to mark Zoroaster

 

George Lucas

Kupe

Jim Thorpe

Unknown Chinese creator of soccer(then Tsu'Chu) 

Babe Ruth

Jesse Owens

Brigham Young

 

 

[SilentLiberty]

21 minutes ago, Patine said:

I'm dubious over whether one athlete in one professional sport qualifies, realistically, for top 100 most influential people in the world. I mean, every professional sport out there has analogous legendary athletes to Babe Ruth. And, ones like Association Football (soccer), Cricket, and the sports traditionally tied to the Olympiads have more scope in nations with significant investment, coverage, and even length of time being professional. Leonidas of Rhodes could be argued as being peerless in the formative years such competitive events - most others, in any sport, would be dubious.

It could be my Americanized view and him becoming partially a folk legend within baseball and Americana. I think he should be including in a voting round. I'm not too sure I'd vote for him necessarily but I think it'd be worth holding it to a vote. There were other athletes I considered or thought about as well, more world renowned ones too. 

[pilight]

23 minutes ago, Patine said:

I'm dubious over whether one athlete in one professional sport qualifies, realistically, for top 100 most influential people in the world.

As opposed to one political leader in one country, of which there are many included.  Almost none of them have any impact lasting past their lifetime.

[SilentLiberty]

54 minutes ago, Patine said:

A leader or influential force in politics, unfortunately, tends to have more sticking effects, for good or ill, than a professional athlete. Professional athletes don't lead to borders being redrawn, numerous people dying, vast swaths of destruction, socio-political and economic policies that affect people's lives, and ideas and endeavours that DO, in fact, often have a lasting inpact well past their lifetime.

I agree with this part. Was gonna use the reaction until the next part of your comment.

 

I will say though that some athletes very much do have lasting impacts, Jackie Robinson is an obvious one that jumps to mind. The Williams sisters come to mind. Not to mention athletes who go on to become politicians or who start nonprofits or other ventures. The children who grow up often grow up looking to pop culture personalities(for better or for worse) rather than politicians which is an other lasting influence. Like many kids will say that their idols are like Taylor Swift as opposed to like Kamala Harris

[pilight]

12 hours ago, Patine said:

 borders being redrawn, numerous people dying, vast swaths of destruction, socio-political and economic policies that affect people's lives

If that's the standard, Arthur Balfour should be included

[vcczar]

@Patine and everyone else had until the end of today to include final nominees. I strongly consider helping find non-Western Civilization and minority figures who could conceivably make the top 100. 

[Timur]

Possibilites:

 - Pope Gregory VII

- Jacobus Arminius

- Timurlane

- Babur

- Nero

- Lao-Tze

- Chang-Tze

- Shang Yang

- Han Fei Tzi

- Shin-Tzu

- John. D. Rockefeller

- Friedrich Hegel

- Theodr Herzl

- Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel

- Denis Diderot

- Bertrand Russell

Edited June 24, 2022 by Timur

[vcczar]

42 minutes ago, Timur said:

Possibilites:

 - Pope Gregory VII

- Jacobus Arminius

- Timurlane

- Babur

- Nero

- Lao-Tze

- Chang-Tze

- Shang Yang

- Han Fei Tzi

- Shin-Tzu

- John. D. Rockefeller

- Friedrich Hegel

- Theodr Herzl

- Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel

- Denis Diderot

- Bertrand Russell

Most of these people have already been nominated and voted on. 

[DakotaHale]

Jesus and Joseph were in the poll  right?

[vcczar]

4 minutes ago, DakotaHale said:

Jesus and Joseph were in the poll  right?

Jesus was 

[jnewt]

23 hours ago, SilentLiberty said:

Babe Ruth

Way in the beginning, when I asked about nominees, I was thinking of Babe Ruth. But after actually voting for probably 130-150 people in the polls, it's hard for me to justify putting him above many of the people I ended up voting.

[SilentLiberty]

11 minutes ago, jnewt said:

Way in the beginning, when I asked about nominees, I was thinking of Babe Ruth. But after actually voting for probably 130-150 people in the polls, it's hard for me to justify putting him above many of the people I ended up voting.

I feel that completely. He's probably the only baseball player I feel could be included so worth mentioning imo. Maybe Gehrig or Roberto Clemente would be worth holding to a vote. So you know what I'll add them

@vcczarsince it's not yet the end of the day yet I'll add Lou Gehrig and Roberto Clemente to my list of people to vote on.

[jnewt]

Mary Magdalene

14th Dalai Lama

Guru Nanak

Ibn Khaldun

Timur

Steve Jobs

Walter Chrysler

Muhammad Ali

Babe Ruth

Henry Kissinger

Rupert Murdoch

Koch Brothers

Robert Solow

Al Capone

Huey Newton

Kwame Ture

Rosa Parks

Frederick Douglass

J. Edgar Hoover

Frank Sinatra

A.P. Giannini

Ray Kroc

William Levitt

Louis B. Mayer

Charles Merrill

Thomas Sowell

Sam Walton

Milton Friedman

George Washington Carver

Lawrence Robert Klein

James Tobin

Irving Fisher

Arthur Laffer

F.W. Taussig

Henry George

Walter Cronkite

J.P. Morgan

Nostradamus

Friedrich Engels

Joseph Goebbels

Josef Mengele

Leon Trotsky

Pontius Pilate

Abhijit Banerjee and Esther Duflo

"Tank Man"

Ibn Saud

Gregor Mendel

Francisco Pizzaro

F.A. Hayek

Daniel Bernoulli

Mohammed Mossadegh

Che Guevara

David Ben-Gurion

Kim Il-Sung

Pele

Ho Chi Minh

Pol Pot

[vcczar]

31 minutes ago, SilentLiberty said:

I feel that completely. He's probably the only baseball player I feel could be included so worth mentioning imo. Maybe Gehrig or Roberto Clemente would be worth holding to a vote. So you know what I'll add them

@vcczarsince it's not yet the end of the day yet I'll add Lou Gehrig and Roberto Clemente to my list of people to vote on.

Do these people really quality for a nomination for WORLD history from the beginning of recorded time to the present? It's kind of a waste of my time to type out a bio and add them into the spreadsheet if they have less than a 50% chance of getting a majority of votes to get to the next round. Let me tag @Patine too, although I think his suggestions have some legitimacy. What does Gehrig and Clemente bring to world history outside of the North Western Hemisphere?

[vcczar]

Just now, jnewt said:

Mary Magdalene

14th Dalai Lama

Guru Nanak

Ibn Khaldun

Timur

Steve Jobs

Walter Chrysler

Muhammad Ali

Babe Ruth

Henry Kissinger

Rupert Murdoch

Koch Brothers

Robert Solow

Al Capone

Huey Newton

Kwame Ture

Rosa Parks

Frederick Douglass

J. Edgar Hoover

Frank Sinatra

A.P. Giannini

Ray Kroc

William Levitt

Louis B. Mayer

Charles Merrill

Thomas Sowell

Sam Walton

Milton Friedman

George Washington Carver

Lawrence Robert Klein

James Tobin

Irving Fisher

Arthur Laffer

F.W. Taussig

Henry George

Walter Cronkite

J.P. Morgan

Nostradamus

Friedrich Engels

Joseph Goebbels

Josef Mengele

Leon Trotsky

Pontius Pilate

Abhijit Banerjee and Esther Duflo

"Tank Man"

Ibn Saud

Gregor Mendel

Francisco Pizzaro

F.A. Hayek

Daniel Bernoulli

Mohammed Mossadegh

Che Guevara

David Ben-Gurion

Kim Il-Sung

Pele

Ho Chi Minh

Pol Pot

Many of these people have been included already. 

[jnewt]

38 minutes ago, SilentLiberty said:

I feel that completely. He's probably the only baseball player I feel could be included so worth mentioning imo. Maybe Gehrig or Roberto Clemente would be worth holding to a vote. So you know what I'll add them

@vcczarsince it's not yet the end of the day yet I'll add Lou Gehrig and Roberto Clemente to my list of people to vote on.

I'd put Jackie Robinson ahead of Gehrig and Clemente

[jnewt]

5 minutes ago, vcczar said:

Many of these people have been included already. 

I searched the forum for each of them to see if they were posted. I don't know how I could have missed *that* many.

[vcczar]

2 minutes ago, jnewt said:

I searched the forum for each of them to see if they were posted. I don't know how I could have missed *that* many.

I'd say 25-30% of the list is included with the nominees. I appreciate the list though.

[SilentLiberty]

1 hour ago, vcczar said:

Do these people really quality for a nomination for WORLD history from the beginning of recorded time to the present? It's kind of a waste of my time to type out a bio and add them into the spreadsheet if they have less than a 50% chance of getting a majority of votes to get to the next round. Let me tag @Patine too, although I think his suggestions have some legitimacy. What does Gehrig and Clemente bring to world history outside of the North Western Hemisphere?

I'd say Clemente could out of the two at the very least, he was very influential in Puerto Rico and his legacy as a genuine good person still stands, I'd put him up more for what he did with his celebrity than his athletic feats. Sure it's still the western hemisphere, but there were plenty of nominees already who were more influential in their own country than the entire world. Also my criteria for voting is if they are typically well known, yes that's coming from an American view point, but like Shakespeare is very well known to this day. Kids know him. His influence is everywhere and people know him by name. Sometimes I'd have to vote against that criteria because there are people who are massively influential that the typical person has no idea who they are. It all depends on what arbitrary criteria people are using to vote. Everyone is different. Everyone has a different idea of what influence means after all.

[SilentLiberty]

On 6/23/2022 at 3:13 PM, Patine said:

Xi Jinping falls into the same category I stated for Donald Trump, Joe Biden, and Vladimir Putin in the poll thread where Putin came up (don't remember the number, but it was very recent), and thus I didn't vote for him. Zoroaster created the absolutely toxic and destructive way of thinking that is Dualism that still plagues and denigrates socio-political and cultural viewpoints - and especially stereotypes - to this day, but Mani spread it war and wide, and thus I didn't choose Zoroaster, but had chose Mani when he was up. Winston Churchill, himself, was a bit overrated, especially, having read about the session of the vote of no confidence of Neville Chamberlain in 1940, there were others in-line for the PM position who either declined or were passed over who could quite likely made excellent wartime leaders, as well - Churchill was not unique. In fact, his role in the Nuremberg Fire Bombings, support of the atomic bombings, and the very early betrayals and selling out of the countries that fell to the Warsaw Pact to secure Greece, Italy, and Turkey in a soulless pact with Stalin he made alongside Truman and the three of them beginning the psychopathic, "Cold War chess game of minor nations," where so much tyranny, death, destruction, chaos, terrorism, and atrocity across the world in a proxy war stratagem that was probably the greatest set of war crimes and crimes against humanity in the dirtiest, most despicable, and morally bankrupt conflict in history - the Cold War - means he wasn't even the great, optimal, heroic standout among those candidates he's made out to be.

As for others not listed:

-Joseph Goebbels

-Pope Leo I

-Pope Leo III

-Pope Innocent III

-Pope Alexander VI

-Pope Clement V

-Pope Pius IX

-Tarek el-Tayeb Mohamed Bouazizi

-Pachacuti

-Violetta Chamorro

-Giulio Gavotti

-Unknown Frankish Blacksmith who created method to forge a blade longer than 1 metre (3 feet) long

-Unknown English Statesman and/or Noble who founded the Free Masonic Order

-Emperor Caracalla

-Louis IX (Saint Louis)

-Henri IV (Bon Roi Henri - Good King Henry)

-Samuel de Champlain

-Jan Christian Smuts

-Võ Nguyên Giáp

-Wat Tyler

-Professor Longhair

-The Tolpuddle Martyrs

-Adam Weishaupt

-Leonidas of Rhodes (the only professional athlete I'd consider)

-Miyamoto Musashi

-Girolamo Savonarola

-Deganawida, the Great Peacemaker

-Victoria Woodhull

-Leni Riefenstahl

-Lavrentiy Beria

-Mohammed Ali Jinnah

-Frederick Barbarossa

-Belisarius

-Nebuchadnezzar II

-Pyrrus

-Jose de San Martin

-Chief Seattle

-Menelik II

-Joseph Jenkins Roberts

-Herod I

-Chandragupta

-Zeng He

-Granny Nanny

-Sun Yat-sen

-Sobekneferu

-Benazir Bhutto

-Cardinal Richlieau

-Catherine di Medici

-Giovanni di Medici

-Jacob Fugger

-Ghana Bassi

-Sobhuza II

-William Robert Woodman, William Wynn Westcott, and Samuel Liddell Mathers

-Alister Crowley

-Ignatius of Loyola

-Toussaint Louverture

-Robert Baldwin and Louis-Hippolyte Lafontaine

-Vlad II Dracul (Tepes)

-Elisabeta Batthory

-Grigori Rasputin

-Grigori Zhukov

-Simeon Timoshenko

Was Catherine de Medici not included originally? I thought about having her on my list but though for sure she'd have been in one of the votes

[jnewt]

@vcczar if you need helping typing up bios for any of mine (especially the economists), let me know. I know my list was very long...