Ranking Poll 1

[vcczar]

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Here's the first people we will attempt to rank: 

Winston Churchill	the earliest and leading advocate against Nazi Germany and Cold War Soviet Russia, ensuring the containment of both expanding powers.
Mikhail Gorbachev	Reformed the USSR towards social democrazy and Western tolerances, including limited market capitalism; arguably the most influential figure in the breakup of the USSR, despite his intentions to keep it together.
Ludwig Van Beethoven	Revolutionary composer that created the bridge from classical music to romantic era music by breaking free of classical tradition in music; Arguably the "Father of Modern Musical Composition" for doing so.
Johann S Bach	Often considered the greatest composer of all time for his mastery in counterpoint, modulation, and contrapuntal motion; Arguably the most inventive composer.
Ronald Reagan	Iconic conservative leader who played a large role in the worldwide movement to end Communism and the Cold War. More or less ended a half-century run on New Deal policy government at the executive level.
Elvis Presley	"King of Rock n' Roll"; Pop culture icon who popularized rock music worldwide.
The Beatles	The most influential and best-selling band of all time; fundamentally changed pop music and the music industry worldwide; had large impact on sociocultural movements; arguably the most diverse and experimental band as well, mastering a range of inventive styles.
Wolfgang A Mozart	One of the most well-known and influential classical musicians. A common example of child prodigy and inexhaustible genius.
Deng Xiaoping	Initiated the economic-market reforms that made China the production capital of the world by the 21st century and a major power

[OrangeP47]

When it came to Bach, Beethoven, and Mozart, I'm kind of indifferent to how they stack up against each other, but I tried to be consistent at least, even though I'm really indifferent.  I did rank them all ahead of the modern musicians, simply because they've had more time to be influential.  I don't think one can adequately mathematically describe the difference between the cultural values each musician represents (and to do so would be a foolish endeavor despite my support for mathematical measuring), so I have to default to something like that.

[vcczar]

6 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

When it came to Bach, Beethoven, and Mozart, I'm kind of indifferent to how they stack up against each other, but I tried to be consistent at least, even though I'm really indifferent.  I did rank them all ahead of the modern musicians, simply because they've had more time to be influential.  I don't think one can adequately mathematically describe the difference between the cultural values each musician represents (and to do so would be a foolish endeavor despite my support for mathematical measuring), so I have to default to something like that.

To me Bach and the Beatles have been the prime influencers in classical and popular music. I think Beethoven was more influential than Mozart in the sense that Beethoven was more innovative and changed music, while Mozart was kind of just the best at doing what was mostly already being done. Elvis did more worldwide than Mozart too, even though I prefer Mozart. I place Bach ahead of the Beatles because of Bach's total influence on music, modality, etc. However, it wouldn't surprise me if in 1,000 years, the Beatles are ahead of Bach. 

[OrangeP47]

Just now, vcczar said:

To me Bach and the Beatles have been the prime influencers in classical and popular music. I think Beethoven was more influential than Mozart in the sense that Beethoven was more innovative and changed music, while Mozart was kind of just the best at doing what was mostly already being done. Elvis did more worldwide than Mozart too, even though I prefer Mozart. I place Bach ahead of the Beatles because of Bach's total influence on music, modality, etc. However, it wouldn't surprise me if in 1,000 years, the Beatles are ahead of Bach. 

Maybe I'm just uncultured, but the way I look at it's like comparing apples and oranges (and ironically I really hate that phrase, because you CAN compare them, there's just no point in doing so).  One or the other is not more or less in my opinion, they are just "different", which is what I was getting at.  I guess this kind of borders on which is "better" than the other, which I know is not the point, it's about influence, which is why I generally went with the earlier one in the timeline.  Now, if you asked who was more influential, any one of these, vs someone who didn't make our top list, then yes, I'd probably go with the people on this list every time, because they are all accomplished, but when stacked against each other, you can't separate them without playing cultural favorites.

[vcczar]

1 minute ago, OrangeP47 said:

Maybe I'm just uncultured, but the way I look at it's like comparing apples and oranges (and ironically I really hate that phrase, because you CAN compare them, there's just no point in doing so).  One or the other is not more or less in my opinion, they are just "different", which is what I was getting at.  I guess this kind of borders on which is "better" than the other, which I know is not the point, it's about influence, which is why I generally went with the earlier one in the timeline.  Now, if you asked who was more influential, any one of these, vs someone who didn't make our top list, then yes, I'd probably go with the people on this list every time, because they are all accomplished, but when stacked against each other, you can't separate them without playing cultural favorites.

My competence is only in Western Music. I don't know who the analogies are for eastern music. Musical influence as far as I see it, and this goes with art and literature and other fine art movements as well, is this:

• There are those influential people who form a bridge from one form of music and move towards what will be a new form of music. 
• There are those who seem to have defiantly changed music. 
• There are those who seem to have been innovative in a wide range in their music and laid a ton of foundations for change. 
• There are those who have high name recognition because they were arguably the best at the music of their time, but didn't necessarily influence any or much change. 

I feel like the Beatles are all of these, which is one argument for them. Mozart is mainly just the last one. Beethoven is the bottom three. Bach is definitely number three and possibly number four, but his role in number three is much more distinct than any other musician, I think. Elvis is harder to pin down on this. 

Anyway, it's fun to think about it. 

[OrangeP47]

11 minutes ago, vcczar said:

My competence is only in Western Music. I don't know who the analogies are for eastern music. Musical influence as far as I see it, and this goes with art and literature and other fine art movements as well, is this:

• There are those influential people who form a bridge from one form of music and move towards what will be a new form of music. 
• There are those who seem to have defiantly changed music. 
• There are those who seem to have been innovative in a wide range in their music and laid a ton of foundations for change. 
• There are those who have high name recognition because they were arguably the best at the music of their time, but didn't necessarily influence any or much change. 

I feel like the Beatles are all of these, which is one argument for them. Mozart is mainly just the last one. Beethoven is the bottom three. Bach is definitely number three and possibly number four, but his role in number three is much more distinct than any other musician, I think. Elvis is harder to pin down on this. 

Anyway, it's fun to think about it. 

I think, with music/the arts/etc even more so than science, we can ask the question:  "Does development have to be linear?".  I mean it's mostly a rhetorical question, as I do not know the answer either.  I merely wonder if the way things went is the way things have to be.  Perhaps such thoughts come because I am such a huge fan of Star Trek, which tries to present a multicultural future not only in so far as humans go, but with many different alien species coexisting as well, and while of course such alien culture is influenced by human standards (as out of universe it's all obviously created by humans), it is a fun thought exercise and stretches the bounds to imagine where other perspectives of art and music might come from if developed differently.  Ironically, up until recently, the same series tended to show classical music as the height of human culture, heh.

[vcczar]

I'll close the poll whenever it seems we've gone a long time without a new vote. Then I'll calculate that poll. Someone that really outperforms others in their ranking range has a chance to be ranked with the rank above them.