FBI Raids Trump's Mar-a-Lago

[vcczar]

New poll 

[vcczar]

For that last question, Biden = Yes and Trump = No. I changed the question and then forgot to change the answers. 

[jvikings1]

Trump’s chances of running and getting nominated substantially increased yesterday.

Also, abolish the FBI (and the rest of the surveillance state)!

Edited August 9, 2022 by jvikings1

[DakotaHale]

Wow I sure do love having an IRS, ATF (thank God Chipman wasn’t nominated) and an FBI used to target private citizens and political opponents!!

[DakotaHale]

19 minutes ago, jvikings1 said:

Trump’s chances of running and getting nominated substantially increased yesterday.

Also, abolish the FBI (and the rest of the surveillance state)!

My chances of supporting him also went up substantially as well. My former status was to keep Trump as far away as possible and nominate DeSantis, Rubio, or Scott, but now I wouldn’t blame him if he ran again.

[DakotaHale]

Imagine the media if the FBI raided Hillary Clinton’s private residence instead of subpoenaing her for information. Doubly so if it was under the Trump administration. Double standard. 

[Rezi]

5 minutes ago, DakotaHale said:

Imagine the media if the FBI raided Hillary Clinton’s private residence instead of subpoenaing her for information. Doubly so if it was under the Trump administration. Double standard. 

That would be just as based, as long as there was a lawfully obtained warrant.

[vcczar]

I am a little suprised of the FBI raid, but I find it perfectly understandable. 

1. The US Congress is launching a bipartisan investigation into an insurrection that saw supporters of a then incumbent president breaking into the US Congress in an attempt to overturn the election and threatening the incumbent VP. 

2. Being the case that the insurrection was clearly illegal and worthy of an investigation, information must be gathered to determine fault, details, etc. 

3. Trump is a central figure regarding Jan 6th, whether he had direct control, indirect control, or no control. 

4. Classified documents were known to be at Mar-a-Lago, I think even Trump admitted to having them and wouldn't hand them over. The committee needs to see if the classified information is important to the investigation or not. It could be nothing, but Trump wouldn't hand it over. In short, Trump was basically asking for a raid. 

5. An FBI raid occurs to prevent the classified documents from changing location. That's why it's raid. One can't expect, "Hey, i'm going to raid your place on Monday at 10am." or whatever. That's not how raids work. 

All conditions for the raid are valid and uncontroversial. It's unique but it isn't controversial. It's within legality. He's got documents that belong to the government of the people of the United States. He's under investigation. Merrick Garland is doing his job. He has to find out if those documents Trump won't hand over are relevant or not to the investigation. 

I think that temporarily Trump will get renewed support among those that woud already vote for him over Biden, and so I think it has no bearing on the 2024 election. It might just help him in the primaries against DeSantis. 

 

[vcczar]

25 minutes ago, DakotaHale said:

Imagine the media if the FBI raided Hillary Clinton’s private residence instead of subpoenaing her for information. Doubly so if it was under the Trump administration. Double standard. 

I'm okay with them raiding Clinton if she's under investigtion and refusing to hand over documents. 

[jvikings1]

4 minutes ago, vcczar said:

I am a little suprised of the FBI raid, but I find it perfectly understandable. 

1. The US Congress is launching a bipartisan investigation into an insurrection that saw supporters of a then incumbent president breaking into the US Congress in an attempt to overturn the election and threatening the incumbent VP. 

2. Being the case that the insurrection was clearly illegal and worthy of an investigation, information must be gathered to determine fault, details, etc. 

3. Trump is a central figure regarding Jan 6th, whether he had direct control, indirect control, or no control. 

4. Classified documents were known to be at Mar-a-Lago, I think even Trump admitted to having them and wouldn't hand them over. The committee needs to see if the classified information is important to the investigation or not. It could be nothing, but Trump wouldn't hand it over. In short, Trump was basically asking for a raid. 

5. An FBI raid occurs to prevent the classified documents from changing location. That's why it's raid. One can't expect, "Hey, i'm going to raid your place on Monday at 10am." or whatever. That's not how raids work. 

All conditions for the raid are valid and uncontroversial. It's unique but it isn't controversial. It's within legality. He's got documents that belong to the government of the people of the United States. He's under investigation. Merrick Garland is doing his job. He has to find out if those documents Trump won't hand over are relevant or not to the investigation. 

I think that temporarily Trump will get renewed support among those that woud already vote for him over Biden, and so I think it has no bearing on the 2024 election. It might just help him in the primaries against DeSantis. 

 

Now do Hunter Biden and those on the Epstein list

Edited August 9, 2022 by jvikings1

[jvikings1]

37 minutes ago, DakotaHale said:

My chances of supporting him also went up substantially as well. My former status was to keep Trump as far away as possible and nominate DeSantis, Rubio, or Scott, but now I wouldn’t blame him if he ran again.

Same with me. I probably still lean DeSantis, but this has changed the whole calculus 

[vcczar]

1 minute ago, jvikings1 said:

Now do Hunter Biden and those on the Epstein list

I'm fine with that. 

[jvikings1]

10 minutes ago, vcczar said:

I'm fine with that. 

But it won’t happen

[vcczar]

Just now, jvikings1 said:

But it won’t happen

GOP just needs to get bipartisan support for it, just as there is bipartisan support for the Jan 6th investigation. I think a GOP house will likely attempt to go after Hunter Biden, but I doubt they'll get bipartisan support for it. I'm not sure why they aren't going after Epstein's list and those with connections to him (which would mean investigating Trump again, and also investigating Bill Clinton and Prince Andrew). If I were a US Rep, I'd support it just because I'm for mega-transparency. I think just about every committee and politician has to go through an extensive audit to ensure everything and everyone is ethical. As such, I'd even support investigating the Jan 6th Committee, even though I 100% support its purpose. Ultimately, I would hope such investigations, audits, transparency would make so that no person that inclines towards corruption and unethical behavior would never concieve of entering government. My support of investigations is completely nonpartisan. I'd support one even on Bernie Sanders, say his 2016 campaign, which I strongly supported. 

[The Blood]

1 hour ago, DakotaHale said:

My chances of supporting him also went up substantially as well. My former status was to keep Trump as far away as possible and nominate DeSantis, Rubio, or Scott, but now I wouldn’t blame him if he ran again.

[Hestia]

1 hour ago, DakotaHale said:

Wow I sure do love having an IRS, ATF (thank God Chipman wasn’t nominated) and an FBI used to target private citizens and political opponents!!

Wow wonder who appointed the FBI Director

[Rezi]

1 hour ago, jvikings1 said:

Now do Hunter Biden and those on the Epstein list

They actually raided someone on the Epstein list. Just yesterday, in fact!

Edited August 9, 2022 by Rezi

[Pringles]

3 hours ago, Hestia said:

Wow wonder who appointed the FBI Director

The deep state lied to Trump and he wasn’t able to appoint a true non RINO REPUBLICAN of course…

[DakotaHale]

5 hours ago, Hestia said:

Wow wonder who appointed the FBI Director

I just want consistency. The President’s son is linked to corruption in China and Ukraine, and films himself committing various crimes, yet nothing occurs. Trump returns 15 archives as requested by the White House, yet still has his private residence raided in an operation likely signed off on by the DOJ. When Hillary refused to return federal information, she just got a subpoena and a slap on the wrist; none of her personal belongings were stolen in any way. The George Floyd riots caused billions more destruction of property and hundreds of more deaths than the Jan 6 riot, but only the Jan 6 riot gets an investigative committee. 

[SilentLiberty]

4 minutes ago, DakotaHale said:

I just want consistency. The President’s son is linked to corruption in China and Ukraine, and films himself committing various crimes, yet nothing occurs. Trump returns 15 archives as requested by the White House, yet still has his private residence raided in an operation likely signed off on by the DOJ. When Hillary refused to return federal information, she just got a subpoena and a slap on the wrist; none of her personal belongings were stolen in any way. The George Floyd riots caused billions more destruction of property and hundreds of more deaths than the Jan 6 riot, but only the Jan 6 riot gets an investigative committee. 

To be fair the January 6th riot also had rioters literally inside of Capitol building, actively trying to find and cause harm to sitting politicians, including but not limited to the Vice President and the Speaker of the House. Regardless of politic beliefs you'd have to see that that is extremely problematic for the entire country. The George Floyd riots were not trying to over throw the federal government. The two aren't really comparable beyond being called "riots"

Edited August 10, 2022 by SilentLiberty

[Hestia]

41 minutes ago, DakotaHale said:

I just want consistency. The President’s son is linked to corruption in China and Ukraine, and films himself committing various crimes, yet nothing occurs. Trump returns 15 archives as requested by the White House, yet still has his private residence raided in an operation likely signed off on by the DOJ. When Hillary refused to return federal information, she just got a subpoena and a slap on the wrist; none of her personal belongings were stolen in any way. The George Floyd riots caused billions more destruction of property and hundreds of more deaths than the Jan 6 riot, but only the Jan 6 riot gets an investigative committee. 

You and I have no idea what the extent is on Hunter Biden. You can hypothesize, so can I, but neither of us really know. A lot of liberals said the same thing about Trump for years - "nothing was happening". Maybe it is just the fact that the justice system takes some time. Keep in mind - these are NOT Trump's personal belongings. These are documents of national security (potentially classified or sensitive national security information) that he wasn't supposed to take from the White House. That is not personal property. That is the government's property, of which he is no longer a part of. People have been arrested for taking documents before - no one knows where that information could go or would go if in the hands of a private citizen. 

Edited August 10, 2022 by Hestia

[DakotaHale]

5 hours ago, Rezi said:

They actually raided someone on the Epstein list. Just yesterday, in fact!

The irony being that the magistrate who signed off on the warrant was a former attorney for Epstein’s staff and associates

[Hestia]

Just now, DakotaHale said:

The irony being that the magistrate who signed off on the warrant was a former attorney for Epstein’s staff and associates

Damn 💀

[pilight]

You can't subpoena someone for documents that don't belong to them.  To recover stolen property, law enforcement comes in with a warrant and takes it.  They don't call to let the possessor know they're coming.

[ShortKing]

I don't think the raid is entirely uncontroversial, there's still a lot we don't know. I understand skepticism when it comes to the FBI's decision-making, they have made some high profile mistakes recently where they have broken norms and precedent, Comey going out of his way to publicly announce an ongoing investigation into Hillary Clinton's conduct during the 2016 election was seen then as unwise and is only more questionable given what we know now about the FBI looking into Trump campaign officials at the same time but not publicizing that fact. A raid is a big step, and not one I think would have been signed off on unless there was valid justification, but I don't find it unthinkable that folks in the FBI and DOJ got out over their skies, just unlikely. 
I would also point out that Trump and his associates have a copy of the warrant that would cite specific statutes alleged to be violated and the evidence being sought that could corroborate such allegations . It would be improper for the FBI to comment on ongoing investigations but Trump could show it to the world if he wanted to, but he sees more benefit in keeping questions open and details vague.