Israel

[Timur]

Now for a really controversial topic.

Hope this doesn't end in a firefight.

[Timur]

6 minutes ago, Timur said:

Now for a really controversial topic.

Hope this doesn't end in a firefight.

Edit: too*

[Cenzonico]

Both sides are cringe in their own right, and I can't support either one. My only hope is that diplomacy could prevail one day (even if that seems highly unlikely).

[vcczar]

I could check off many of these things. I would say I agree with these three things:

• Regardless, both should stop fighting.
• Israel has a right to defend themself but they should be more careful.
• Israel is an apartheid state.

[Pringles]

The loss of innocent life on both sides is horrible. But the fact remains is that Hamas took what was a civil dispute, if I am remembering what started all of this correctly, and responded by firing 130 rockets into Tel Aviv and much, much, much more. Israel fights back, and the cringe lords on social media who are among the left more often than not, claim oppression, imperialism, genocide, etc. It's absolutely shameful.

I will say while I think Israel should be more careful in targeting, Hamas has just as much of a role in this as they are the ones who poked the bear. 

And Israel is not an apartheid state. 

[pilight]

It's a mess.  It's been a mess for thousands of years and will likely continue to be one for thousands more.  Both sides are right and both sides are wrong. The best we can hope for is a lessening of violent interaction.

[Rodja]

Look,i am 1000% pro-Israel and i believe they are an important american ally,but what we are seeing in Palestine is morally wrong and unacceptable.Israeli army  is killing civilians and childern,most Palestinians are living without basic conditions like electricity.Benjamin Netanyahu is a far right dictator leading a tyranic government that terorizes people based on their ethnicity and religion,he has got to go and he has got to be replaced with a government that would treat Palestinians as human beings and give them the right to their country that they are historicaly entitled to!

Free Palestine!

[Pringles]

1 hour ago, Patine said:

Of course, you know, as well as I do, as well as many, that wasn't the start of it. It started in the 1920's, in the British Mandatory Palestine, one of the League of Nations paternalistic and condescending, "mandates," carved from German Colonies and Ottoman Middle Eastern Territories, 'not yet ready to govern themselves," by the Peace of Paris (the set of treaties that ended WW1, but ultimately were the root cause of WW2). The Balfour Declaration said there would be Jewish Homeland in their Biblical Cradle as a People, but that the Arab and other people long living there under Ottoman rules for centuries would also have a nation, and demarcation line would be made. Jewish settlers and Palestinian residents started killing each (with instigations clearly from both sides, varying by incident), right from the early. And the planned, "peaceful and orderly division," never happened - instead, war broke out in 1948 - the first of four (six, if you include the 1986 and 2008 invasions of Lebanon), Arab-Israeli Wars, of which Israel instigated the military phase of all but one of. Palestine's inability to become a legitimate nation, being a stateless people, in their own homeland, is despicable, But, then again, despicable acts and attitudes abound on both sides. And, there never really was a break, pause, or reset of the situation enough, that you're analysis of the cause of this incident above as having a recent or new cause holds any real credibility - it has, instead, just been an endless chain of events for almost 100 years, now.

I'm talking about what ignited "major" hostilities that we're seeing now once again. I don't need some history lecture from you on problems that have been around not only since the 1920s, but since the Medieval Ages and Crusades. I'm surprised a man of your stature failed to mention problems prior to 1920... I sense an insult in my intelligence.

Also, what's wrong with the forum? Lol.

[Pringles]

Just now, Patine said:

What I'm addressing is your belief that this issue has any breaks or separation enough in the flow of wretched events to call out causes of specific flare-ups in isolation, which it doesn't. Also, contrary to popular belief, the Crusades contribute almost nothing to the current events. The consecrated butchering thugs in metal armour that were the Crusaders were just as rotten to the Jews as they were the Muslims and local Christians, and Jews were drawn in large numbers (especially in their elite cavalry archer units) into the armies formed by Saladin, in fact. Very little real, meaningful connection, except in contrived and romaniticized narratives that are highly inaccurate.

When did I say this has a break or separation in the flow of all events of the past? Hamas fired missiles just a week ago over the Israeli Government and a controversial court case involving evictions of Palestinians, Israeli police response, etc. etc. That is what triggered these current hostilities. That is what began the missile firing. This is a conversation on what's going on in Israel right now as we speak lol. If you wanna talk about the past go make your own post on it, that's not the topic at hand here. Your point is meaningless. And surely you'd detect my sarcasm, no matter how little relation there is to current events and the crusades, the fact remains that this area has been a conflict zone of sorts between these two groups since the crusades and even more.

That's legit all I'm implying. You dissect words way too much. 

And as I said, I don't need a history lecture from you. I'm leaving it at this lol, as your comments along with this entire exchange was pointless.

[Pringles]

Just now, Patine said:

My point is not meaningless. The current casus belli, and the current violence, cannot be put in isolation in these kind of circumstances. And, now saying, "this is a conversation on what's going on in Israel right now as we speak," magically changes that fact - well, I don't even what to say to such flawed and broken logic. What's going on right now in Israel as we speak is NOT JUST happening SOLELY because of a court case and some missiles - and it's naive to think so, I'm afraid. That's my point, and it is meaningful - you just don't like it...

It's so laughable how everyone else here can have a normal conversation, except you. Who has to respond to what any of us say with 10 paragraphs and lectures on stuff we already know. And once again, you're misinterpreting what I'm saying as usual. This conflict overall spans more than a generation. But the fact remains is that major hostilities once again rose because of major issues over evictions and a court case from Israel's Supreme Court. Why is that so hard to understand? Why do you have to question that and go on a rant? It's what happened lol. The resentment and conflict has always been there, but these current issues as I mentioned ignited the powder keg. 

It's not that hard to understand. 

It's getting to the point where I'm just going to have to start completely ignoring you, and for that, I am sorry. 

Enough said. 

[Timur]

Well, I tend to be more pro-Israel than my vote may seem to indicate.

And, Likud isn't far-right, the Religious Zionist Party is.

Far-Left: Balad

Left: Meretz

Center-Left: Labor

Center: Blue & White, Yesh Atid

Centre-Right: Likud

Right: Yamina

Far-Right: Religious Zionist Party

[Timur]

4 minutes ago, Timur said:

Well, I tend to be more pro-Israel than my vote may seem to indicate.

And, Likud isn't far-right, the Religious Zionist Party is.

Far-Left: Balad

Left: Meretz

Center-Left: Labor

Center: Blue & White, Yesh Atid

Centre-Right: Likud

Right: Yamina

Far-Right: Religious Zionist Party

Having said that, whatever one thinks of the conflict, the situation is complicated.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Timur

[Hestia]

I'm honestly surprised the best thing you could come up with is from the 1990s, which now is 20-30 years old @Mishfox. 

[Hestia]

6 minutes ago, Patine said:

@Mishfox hasn't posted on this thread.

Cool.

[Hestia]

Just now, Patine said:

Unusual behaviour, @Hestia. You've usually been quite level-headed, so this kind of stands out. Is everything, well?

I'm just tired and don't want to explain. Mish and others got into a discussion in an RP thread last night and I tried to change it to a suitable thread. As usual, that plea was ignored. 

[Hestia]

Just now, Patine said:

Ah. Since I was not following the RP, it made no sense to me. Thanks for the cursory explanation.

Yeah, and Fbarb got the admins to delete it for ease of posting for his RP, so it's nowhere to be found right now. But if you read the discussion today about communism, then you kind of get how it went.

[Timur]

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/n-korea-accuses-misanthropic-israel-of-genocide-massacring-children-670321

The irony.

[Timur]

3 minutes ago, Patine said:

Criticizing Israeli Government policy and actions is NOT Antiseimitic, any more than, say, criticizing the policies and actions of the PRC is Sinophobic. People need to drop, stop using, and stop giving legitimacy to these uses of terms such as these.

It is not. I'm just saying that North Korea is being pretty hypocritical.