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KIA Military Leaders Possibly Adding to AMPU


vcczar
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Here's a list of possible addiitons to AMPU. There reason for this is that it seems like the deaths are exceeding the number of in-game politicians that died in those respective war. I won't add all of these, but these are candidates for inclusion:

Rev War

NW Indian War

War of 1812

Misc. Indian Wars

Mexican War

American Civil War

Spanish-American War

World War II

Korean War

Vietnam

War on Terror/Iraq

This is pretty much who I got, which mean we may need to decrease the % chance of death, including career track deaths. Some wars are not represented. 

 

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I'll preface this with I *am* warming up to the change that's prompting this.  That said, I do think a % decrease is in order, because it's not like historically we've had boatloads of flag officers die in combat.  Maybe in some specific conditions and certain wars, but for the entire history of the country, not really.

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I’m opposed to adding a large amount of military statesmen.

The big concern I have here is that by adding more military statesmen, that will they will mostly be used for non-military purposes. There are very few spots open to actually serve in the military, and for all of these wars we’ve already got more than enough people to serve. We also don’t have an issue filling the Military Track for most drafts and those spots would typically go to people already in the game likely starting with equal or higher Military ability. 

So, what will *actually* happen to these guys? They’ll get thrown into ahistoric career track. They’ll enter the private or backroom track more often than not, or be used in to 50/50 entering the Admin, Legislative, Governing, or Judicial tracks. 

If you end up adding more military guys, that’s cool. I’m just concerned that it will lead to some craziness for guys who were included specifically for the military being used for mostly other purposes. 

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24 minutes ago, Cal said:

I’m opposed to adding a large amount of military statesmen.

The big concern I have here is that by adding more military statesmen, that will they will mostly be used for non-military purposes. There are very few spots open to actually serve in the military, and for all of these wars we’ve already got more than enough people to serve. We also don’t have an issue filling the Military Track for most drafts and those spots would typically go to people already in the game likely starting with equal or higher Military ability. 

So, what will *actually* happen to these guys? They’ll get thrown into ahistoric career track. They’ll enter the private or backroom track more often than not, or be used in to 50/50 entering the Admin, Legislative, Governing, or Judicial tracks. 

If you end up adding more military guys, that’s cool. I’m just concerned that it will lead to some craziness for guys who were included specifically for the military being used for mostly other purposes. 

Ok, then the alternative is reducing the % chance of death and then maybe adding two of these guys for each war. I don't know if @MrPotatoTed wants to come up with a reduced chance of battlefield death or if he wants me to do it. I'm more inclined to make it very rare, considering we have few politicians in-game who died in war. The reason for this is because generally the high command doesn't die and those that become politicians later have usually survived. 

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1 hour ago, Cal said:

I’m opposed to adding a large amount of military statesmen.

The big concern I have here is that by adding more military statesmen, that will they will mostly be used for non-military purposes. There are very few spots open to actually serve in the military, and for all of these wars we’ve already got more than enough people to serve. We also don’t have an issue filling the Military Track for most drafts and those spots would typically go to people already in the game likely starting with equal or higher Military ability. 

So, what will *actually* happen to these guys? They’ll get thrown into ahistoric career track. They’ll enter the private or backroom track more often than not, or be used in to 50/50 entering the Admin, Legislative, Governing, or Judicial tracks. 

If you end up adding more military guys, that’s cool. I’m just concerned that it will lead to some craziness for guys who were included specifically for the military being used for mostly other purposes. 

I think this problem seems less like a problem for earlier start dates. Contrary to today more politicians in the 18th and 19th century seem to have had some sort of relationship with the military.

So it makes sense for them to switch their careers in the game one way or the other.

Edited by ConservativeElector2
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2 hours ago, vcczar said:

I mean…are there any examples of people becoming politicians later after previously dying?

;c)

I kind of like it as is…for example, your list is missing lower ranking folks who had political potential but died, such as JFK’s older brother.  Not everyone is a flag officer.

But feel free to do with it as you will.  I’ve been taking a break lately to deal with some health issues.

Edited by MrPotatoTed
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@Cal @MrPotatoTed @matthewyoung123 @ConservativeElector2 @OrangeP47 etc. 

  1. I'm going to add some of the military politicians from the original post--maybe like 10 of them. 
  2. I've slightly decreased the chance of deaths as I find what I'm seeing on the playtests as potentially worrisome unless I add like 50 more military people, which I don't want to do. The Rev War half-term in one of the playtests seemed more like the Civil War in regards to officer fatalities. The decrease is slight and I will change it back if it seems like deaths are never occuring. I think what I'll do once early release is out, is figure out, on average, how many generals, admirals, and career track people are being killed off. If it is less than the # of statesmen we have that were historically killed during those wars, then I'll increase the %. If it is still more than historically killed politicians, then I'll just add even more military. 
  3. I've also added that the %'s are lowered even more once the Chairman of the Joints Chief of Staff is created. The reason for this is that we have very low general-admiral deaths following the creation of the Dept of Defense. They aren't fighitng on the front lines and might even be dictating orders from, say Qatar, instead of Iraq. There's also the issue of finding people killed in recent wars that might have been politically ambitious. I don't know who these people might be. It's a little easier when it's the son of a famous politician or something, like Henry Clay Jr or Fletcher Webster or Joe Kennedy Jr. 
  4. I've added that for the various major military officer positions, that one cannot be reappointed to these officers if they vacate the office or are removed once West Point Military Academy is created. 

I'll now make spots for the 10 military officers to be filled out. 

Note: I'm pretty much taking a break from AMPU until Anthony starts working on it again. Let's just say I'm on vacation, so this is the last thing I'm going to do to the rules, spreadsheets, etc. I'll created a thread for suggested fixes again. 

 

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1 hour ago, ConservativeElector2 said:

Obvious question first: what's the consensus for party affiliation if there is no clear political activity detectable in the bios?

If it doesn't state in the article, then I tend to give them whatever their state was generally about the time they were born. I then give them party flip and independent too. McPherson, Brooks, Webster, and Shaw are definitely Red. Forrest III and probably Buckner Jr are Blue. 

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9 minutes ago, DJBillyShakes said:

I've been lurking and following the game's development for a few months. I'd love to help out. With access to the rules, I could develop some simulations to calculate how many pols are expected to die in wars according to the current rules if it would be helpful.

Thanks for the offer, but considering how confidential they are, I'd have to get to know you in the forum. You only have 1 post to your name right now. I like your username a lot though. You also need to have pre-ordered the game or have been a KS donor. 

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11 minutes ago, vcczar said:

Thanks for the offer, but considering how confidential they are, I'd have to get to know you in the forum. You only have 1 post to your name right now. I like your username a lot though. You also need to have pre-ordered the game or have been a KS donor. 

I have pre-ordered the game, but obviously, I understand not wanting to give the rules out to somebody you don't know and hasn't been active on the forum.

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@vcczar Finished all of them. Did my best on ideology, religion and party affiliation.

I would like to point out some things: should they get frail? Technically they could have lived well into their 90s if they had not been killed in a battle, but still some died very young.

Shaw was 26 when being killed and was already dead when he should be drafted in 1864. So should his draft date be 1860?

Arguably Shaw and Custer at least can be seen as well known people. Do they qualify for gaining celebrity? Does it make sense to add celebrity to people who became one due to dying heroically?

Edited by ConservativeElector2
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30 minutes ago, ConservativeElector2 said:

@vcczar Finished all of them. Did my best on ideology, religion and party affiliation.

I would like to point out some things: should they get frail? Technically they could have lived well into their 90s if they had not been killed in a battle, but still some died very young.

Shaw was 26 when being killed and was already dead when he should be drafted in 1864. So should his draft date be 1860?

Arguably Shaw and Custer at least can be seen as well known people. Do they qualify for gaining celebrity? Does it make sense to add celebrity to people who became one due to dying heroically?

Good questions. No on frail. No on celebrity. I'll create an event for Shaw, so keep his draft date like everyone else's. The event will either kill him off or make him a celebrity if he survives. You did a great job. Only thing I removed was Military Leader since that has to be earned. 

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4 minutes ago, vcczar said:

Good questions. No on frail. No on celebrity. I'll create an event for Shaw, so keep his draft date like everyone else's. The event will either kill him off or make him a celebrity if he survives. You did a great job. Only thing I removed was Military Leader since that has to be earned. 

Thanks! One more thing. What was called military is now called army. So I put Army as initial experience, but a lot of formerly added politicians still have military as their initial expertise. 

Edited by ConservativeElector2
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On 9/26/2022 at 9:17 PM, vcczar said:

Here's a list of possible addiitons to AMPU. There reason for this is that it seems like the deaths are exceeding the number of in-game politicians that died in those respective war. I won't add all of these, but these are candidates for inclusion:

Rev War

NW Indian War

War of 1812

Misc. Indian Wars

Mexican War

American Civil War

Spanish-American War

World War II

Korean War

Vietnam

War on Terror/Iraq

This is pretty much who I got, which mean we may need to decrease the % chance of death, including career track deaths. Some wars are not represented. 

 

I am late to the party on this post but what about John Brown? He isn't a military leader but he tried to lead an uprising.

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17 minutes ago, ConservativeElector2 said:

I know he was requested once before and I agreed with that, but I don't know if he ever made it into the game.

I think he’d be an interesting addition to the game. Maybe I’ll add him when I get home. 

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