Should the Song Dixie Be in AMPU?

[vcczar]

Should the Song Dixie Be in AMPU?

My only reason for considering including the song is how popular it was during its time. 

My reasons for not incuding it are:

• It's association as a kind of unofficial tune of the Confederacy, a failed nation that went to war primarily to protect their rights to enslave other human beings. 
• Including the song might bring a lot of negative press from the media
• It might be offensive 

Despite being someone who went to a couple BLM protests, votes for lawmakers who support racial equity, and would even support slavery reparations, I am not in the least bothered if Dixie is included in the game. However, I don't want to deal with any media fallout or complaints, etc., over the inclusion of any song. 

I'm leaning "no" at the moment. 

[Hestia]

To be completely honest, I've never really heard the song Dixie so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I'll always default to: "be safe and get as many customers as possible" so I voted no.

[Murrman104]

Could compromise and play Union Dixie 

[vcczar]

14 minutes ago, Murrman104 said:

Could compromise and play Union Dixie 

None of the songs will have lyrics, I don't think. 

[MrPotatoTed]

I mean, the game has slavery.  It has the trail of tears.  It has various other horrible things.  I don't see why we'd both start and end the whitewashing of American history with a single song.  I vote include.

[10centjimmy]

For AMPU probably makes the most sense to clear the bar on music and avoid anything too complex or controversial, regardless how you feel about the song. Your best bet for "Civil War" Era music might be snare drums with a flute/fife accompaniment. 

Honestly I would encourage you to steer clear and instead select ambient music or themes for the various eras.  Maybe AMPU 2 could go all in on an historical Era specific soundtrack with pieces from the relevant time periods. 

Edited October 22, 2022 by 10centjimmy

[vcczar]

19 minutes ago, 10centjimmy said:

Honestly I would encourage you to steer clear and instead select ambient music or themes for the various eras.  Maybe AMPU 2 could go all in on an historical Era specific soundtrack with pieces from the relevant time periods. 

This is a possibility. Could you send me links to specific music you might have in mind? I copied down the links to free music, but I haven't gone through them as I don't recognize any of the names of the songs or anything. 

[Pringles]

Victoria 2 has Confederate songs in it's soundtrack. Like, "Oh I'm a Good Old Rebel." I see nothing wrong with it, especially if it's Dixie which can be a spinoff of multiple versions. Look up the lyrics of "Oh I'm a Good Old Rebel" if you haven't heard and I'd say it might be worse than Dixie as it basically says "I don't give a damn about this Yankee nation. I'm glad I fought against her." 

And yeah since it's orchestra pieces only, I'm pretty sure it's fine.  

[10centjimmy]

1 hour ago, vcczar said:

This is a possibility. Could you send me links to specific music you might have in mind? I copied down the links to free music, but I haven't gone through them as I don't recognize any of the names of the songs or anything. 

https://snapmuse.com/track/ashes-and-snow-1900457

https://snapmuse.com/track/the-long-wait-1900467

https://snapmuse.com/track/falling-angels-1900465

https://snapmuse.com/track/mistral-winds-1906630

https://snapmuse.com/track/a-delicate-moment-1900453

More Era of manifest destiny

https://snapmuse.com/track/old-guys-1903065

"Lobo Loco - Hopp on Hopp off (ID 1802) - Free Music Archive" https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Lobo_Loco/lightshine/hopp-on-hopp-off-id-1802/

"Free Guitar Walking Blues (F 016) - Free Music Archive" https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Lobo_Loco/completly-free/free-guitar-walking-blues-f-016/

 

Here's a couple that could fit in several eras, but happy to dig for more if you like this sort of style.

All in all, "actual music" seems like more of a nice to have.

 

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by 10centjimmy

[vcczar]

@10centjimmy I'll take a listen to these when I can play music again. I don't have any headphones and don't want to disturb anyone. Might not be until tomorrow. 

[vcczar]

@10centjimmy I had some time to listen to parts of all of these. While I do like the snapmuse selections a lot, they seem better for a European-centric or global-centric game than something American. I think I'll just have to make a playlist of American songs from 1772-1926 that are in the public domain. I might have a task for you to find music that might be free that sounds like it's from after 1926, provided the songs haven't lyrics. I'll try to make that attempt first however. 

I like Free Music Archive. I found a lot of ragtime songs there. 

[OrangeP47]

My take:  I would say no to Dixie, not for the reasons above, but simply because AMPU is a game much for focused on the USA than the CSA than the other examples that included it.  

[10centjimmy]

16 hours ago, vcczar said:

@10centjimmy I had some time to listen to parts of all of these. While I do like the snapmuse selections a lot, they seem better for a European-centric or global-centric game than something American. I think I'll just have to make a playlist of American songs from 1772-1926 that are in the public domain. I might have a task for you to find music that might be free that sounds like it's from after 1926, provided the songs haven't lyrics. I'll try to make that attempt first however. 

I like Free Music Archive. I found a lot of ragtime songs there. 

1930s/40s:

"Latché Swing - Swing 39 - Free Music Archive" https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Latch_Swing/demo_2008/Swing_39/

"Latché Swing - Songe D'Automne - Free Music Archive" https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Latch_Swing/demo_2008/Songe_DAutomne/

"Latché Swing - Sweet Georgia Brown - Free Music Archive" https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Latch_Swing/demo_2008/Sweet_Georgia_Brown/

1950s:

"Lobo Loco - Easy Walker (ID 1423) - Free Music Archive" https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Lobo_Loco/hot-summer-place/easy-walker-id-1423/

"Till Paradiso - Woke up this Morning (TP 53) - Free Music Archive" https://freemusicarchive.org/music/till-paradiso/musikbrause-radio-part-2/woke-up-this-morning-tp-53/

1960s:

1970s:

1980s:

1990s:

"Man Outta Town (Instrumental) - Free Music Archive" https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Forget_the_Whale/you-me-talk-now/man-outta-town-instrumental-1/

"Forget the Whale - I K W Y B (Instrumental) - Free Music Archive" https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Forget_the_Whale/you-me-talk-now/i-k-w-y-b-instrumental/

"Leave The Bottle (Instrumental) - Free Music Archive" https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Forget_the_Whale/you-me-talk-now/leave-the-bottle-instrumental/

2000s:

 

 

I'll update as I find more

[vcczar]

@10centjimmy Thanks! I'm still going through my list, but I'll look at these and more throughout this week. 

[vcczar]

So I have 28 historical songs that have links to download instrumental-only free music. This is only a fraction of those I'd like to have. I also discarded any that sounded like crap. This is at least an hour's worth of music, if not more. 

 

[vcczar]

2 hours ago, 10centjimmy said:

1930s/40s:

"Latché Swing - Swing 39 - Free Music Archive" https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Latch_Swing/demo_2008/Swing_39/

"Latché Swing - Songe D'Automne - Free Music Archive" https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Latch_Swing/demo_2008/Songe_DAutomne/

"Latché Swing - Sweet Georgia Brown - Free Music Archive" https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Latch_Swing/demo_2008/Sweet_Georgia_Brown/

1950s:

"Lobo Loco - Easy Walker (ID 1423) - Free Music Archive" https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Lobo_Loco/hot-summer-place/easy-walker-id-1423/

"Till Paradiso - Woke up this Morning (TP 53) - Free Music Archive" https://freemusicarchive.org/music/till-paradiso/musikbrause-radio-part-2/woke-up-this-morning-tp-53/

1960s:

1970s:

1980s:

1990s:

"Man Outta Town (Instrumental) - Free Music Archive" https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Forget_the_Whale/you-me-talk-now/man-outta-town-instrumental-1/

"Forget the Whale - I K W Y B (Instrumental) - Free Music Archive" https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Forget_the_Whale/you-me-talk-now/i-k-w-y-b-instrumental/

"Leave The Bottle (Instrumental) - Free Music Archive" https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Forget_the_Whale/you-me-talk-now/leave-the-bottle-instrumental/

2000s:

 

 

I'll update as I find more

I grabbed some of these. The 1990s selections, although not bad, are kind of busy. I took two of the Latche Swing and the Till Paradiso. So thanks for those. 

Here's some info that might help you find some AMPU musical selections. Remember all need to be free and for commercial use. All instrumental.

Era of Independence - Revolutionary fife music and maybe some harp music from the time or that resembles music from the time. I only need maybe 1 to 4 more songs here. 

Era of Federalism - About the same. I only need maybe 1 to 4 more songs here. 

Era of Republicanism - About the same as above. 

Era of Democracy - Probably more early popular folk music, something that someone in the frontier might play. Need only like 1 to 4 more songs here also.

Era of Manifest Destiny - Songs that sound like Stephen Foster, the first really famous American songwriter. I need maybe 2 to 5 more songs here. 

Era of Nationalism - Mainly Civil War era sounding music. I need maybe 2 to 5 more songs. I couldn't find a good Battle Cry of Freedom. Maybe you can. 

Era of the Gilded Age - This is pretty well covered, but if you can find 1 or 2 more songs that would fit this era, it would be great.

Era of Progressivism - Well-covered. Maybe 1 or 2 more early, early jazz or early, early blues. Or something by Charles Ives. 

Era of Normalcy - I got this fairly well covered but could use something that sounds like flapper music. This is where the Public domain ends on historic music. 

Era of Ideologies - This should probably include music that resembles Depression Era music (Happy Days are Here again), big jazz bands in New Orleans, Kansas City, Chicago, NYC. Barber Shop Quarter sounding music. Sinatra and Ella Fitzgerald. 1940ish film score sounding music. WWII news reel sounding music. WWII sounding music. 

Era of the Nuclear Age - Anything that sounds Cold War era, Elvis, The Platters Patsy Cline, etc. w/o vocals obviously. Beatnik Jazz sounding music. Maybe a few Dylan-esque songs. Hendrix-esque. Maybe some experimental classical. 

Era of Neocons - This is a large time period. Disco, Punk, Early Hip Hop-esque, Michael Jackson-esque, something elevator music-like but not too tedious, easy listening jazz. Metal but not too busy since the music should be background music. Something country too. 

Era of Terror - This will be a bit harder because I didn't pay too much attention to contemporary music in the 2000s. Something like Britney Spears, Tupac, Coolio, Cold Play, Eminem, U2, Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga. Yo Yo Ma. Neutral Milk Hotel.

Era of Populism - Something similar to Harry Styles, Megan Thee Stallion, and I have no clue who else. 

Era of the Future (early or later) - Anything that sounds futuristic or that it's coming from space. Something from nature. Something from apocalypse. Something hopeful. 

Also anything that sounds video game epic to sort of mix around in this. 

Appreciate any help. 

 

[matthewyoung123]

On 10/22/2022 at 12:48 PM, vcczar said:

Should the Song Dixie Be in AMPU?

My only reason for considering including the song is how popular it was during its time. 

My reasons for not incuding it are:

• It's association as a kind of unofficial tune of the Confederacy, a failed nation that went to war primarily to protect their rights to enslave other human beings. 
• Including the song might bring a lot of negative press from the media
• It might be offensive 

Despite being someone who went to a couple BLM protests, votes for lawmakers who support racial equity, and would even support slavery reparations, I am not in the least bothered if Dixie is included in the game. However, I don't want to deal with any media fallout or complaints, etc., over the inclusion of any song. 

I'm leaning "no" at the moment. 

It was one of Abraham Lincoln's favorite songs.  Written by a Northerner.

Lincoln once said he had two favorite songs.  "One was Dixie, and the other one wasn't."

 

[vcczar]

1 hour ago, matthewyoung123 said:

It was one of Abraham Lincoln's favorite songs.  Written by a Northerner.

Lincoln once said he had two favorite songs.  "One was Dixie, and the other one wasn't."

 

Yeah I know about that. The issue is more with how 21st century people might react to it. 

[matthewyoung123]

1 minute ago, vcczar said:

Yeah I know about that. The issue is more with how 21st century people might react to it. 

There are a ton of Civil War games (modern) out there that use it.  I honestly don't think it's THAT big of an issue.  Anyone wanting to play this game would likely understand why it's included.

[Bushwa777]

I know this is an old topic but I think of what President Lincoln said when he had the Union band play Dixie and said now it belongs to all of us.  Sure there are awful things about history but there are good things as well and we cannot get better if we do not embrace both the bad and the good.  Also, what is the chance that the media will really care for the most part about a computer game that only a select group will play?  If you make a big deal about it yeah they may pay attention but if you simply put all types of music in then release the game I do not see any major CNN or NBC or whatever actually giving a care.  

[dkh64]

So, I voted no but my most honest feelings are "meh." I'm Black, play Vic2 which apparently has it in its soundtrack, but I also tend not to listen to the soundtrack of games while I play them. If I really want to set the mood, I'm listening to something of my own choosing on YouTube. I appreciate you @vcczar for thinking about it, that's always a good sign for me, but I can't imagine a ton of uproar over it being included and roll my eyes a bit at anyone who might argue strenuously for its inclusion.

 

[NCblue1]

I didn't vote as I like the melody of Dixie but don't really have strong feelings either way.  I would like some Yankee music for that era, either the "Battle Hymn of the Republic," or the earlier variant "John Brown's Body"