President Bracket Game

[vcczar]

For the above: 

Pick the president you think was generally the greater president. This will be multiple rounds. Only those presidents that lose by a 2/3 majority will be removed for the next round. 

There's a 1 week timer on this poll.

@Beetlejuice @Cal @Cenzonico @ConservativeElector2 @DakotaHale @Dobs @Fbarbarossa @Hestia @jnewt @Magnus Rex @MrPotatoTed @Pringles @Rezi @Rodja @Sean F Kennedy @The Blood @vcczar @WVProgressive @Zenobiyl

[Pringles]

Glad to see Nixon at 100% against that joker John Tyler. 😎

Surprised to see all the John Q. Adams votes. Hes easily one of my least favorite Presidents. Same with John Adam's. Only reason he won that vote is because he was put up against Donald Trump. Interesting to see the trends of others though!

[vcczar]

10 minutes ago, Pringles said:

Glad to see Nixon at 100% against that joker John Tyler. 😎

Surprised to see all the John Q. Adams votes. Hes easily one of my least favorite Presidents. Same with John Adam's. Only reason he won that vote is because he was put up against Donald Trump. Interesting to see the trends of others though!

Interesting. JQ Adams is a my "could have been great" president. I pretty much liked all of his proposals. Had his allies controlled both Houses of Congress, I feel like we would have modernized much quicker. He's the first president we had that huge designs to out-complete Europe. He expanded plans for the national roads, plans for other internal improvements, reached a bunch of trade deals to minor countries, and while Jackson gets credit for paying off the national debt, most of that was paid off under Adams. Adams proposed a national observatory, a national university, an expedition to explore the Pacific and a lot of other intellectually engaged proposals. He also proposed a national bankruptcy law. Most of what he proposed, including things I didn't mention, were adopted down the road. I score a lot of points to people that were ahead of their time as most genius is. 

[ConservativeElector2]

21 minutes ago, Pringles said:

Glad to see Nixon at 100% against that joker John Tyler. 😎

Surprised to see all the John Q. Adams votes. Hes easily one of my least favorite Presidents. Same with John Adam's. Only reason he won that vote is because he was put up against Donald Trump. Interesting to see the trends of others though!

On the contrary. I want to make John Adams a two-term president with Vcczar's game.

[Pringles]

 

Corrupt bargain round 2 eh? 😛

Edited April 8, 2021 by Pringles

[Rezi]

I doubt it’ll end up mattering but my vote for Buchanan was meant for FDR

[Pringles]

14 minutes ago, vcczar said:

Interesting. JQ Adams is a my "could have been great" president. I pretty much liked all of his proposals. Had his allies controlled both Houses of Congress, I feel like we would have modernized much quicker. He's the first president we had that huge designs to out-complete Europe. He expanded plans for the national roads, plans for other internal improvements, reached a bunch of trade deals to minor countries, and while Jackson gets credit for paying off the national debt, most of that was paid off under Adams. Adams proposed a national observatory, a national university, an expedition to explore the Pacific and a lot of other intellectually engaged proposals. He also proposed a national bankruptcy law. Most of what he proposed, including things I didn't mention, were adopted down the road. I score a lot of points to people that were ahead of their time as most genius is. 

While he was indeed certainly ahead of his time, I see him as a bit of a failed President because of his inability to adapt to the political situation around him. Plus I wouldnt say I was a supporter of everything Whigs proposed. I will clarify though, hes not as bad as the original John Adam's, in my opinion. Perhaps my original comment was a little to hostile simply because I associate him with his father a little too much. 

[vcczar]

10 minutes ago, Pringles said:

 

Corrupt bargain round 2 eh? 😛

The Corrupt Bargain was mainly Jacksonian Propaganda. I've read a few books on the 1800 election. I have my notes for one of these on my blog: historymonocle.com

The bargain is the assumption that Clay endorsed Adams in exchange for the position of Sec of State. The endorsement was framed as suspicious because Clay, like Jackson, was a western man. It was also assumed that Clay was waiting for offer from both Jackson and Adams to make his decision on whom to endorse. It was also assumed Clay had control of several states in the House election. It was assumed Jackson won the EV and the PV. However, this is what is often considered the actual case by scholars: 

- Henry Clay was long expected to be a Sec of State option for any of the candidates. 

- While Clay was a Western man his advocated "American System" of a protective tariff and internal improvements fit most naturally with an Adams presidency. Additionally, Clay believed he wouldn't become president after Jackson, considering Jackson was another Westerner. He though it would be easier to follow a Northerner as president. 

- Clay wasn't waiting for offers. Letters show he was soundly behind Adams as soon as election results showed that no one reached the required EVs. Clay never considered Jackson or Crawford. 

- Henry Clay was Speaker, but he was not the most influential person in other states. The Whigs and National Republicans were not yet a party, so he wasn't even the most influential person in his party. He was Speaker during a time when the Speakership was weaker than it is now. That isn't to say he had no influence, however. 

- Jackson led in the EV. He didn't win it. Those that voted for Clay or Crawford had a right to decide between Jackson and Adams. 

- Jackson led in the PV, but several states didn't even have a popular vote yet, including NY, which was the most populated state. The author of one book suggests that NY was so pro-Adams that Adams would have likely won the PV had the people been allowed to vote, rather than the legislature. 

Had it been a standard two-person race, Jackson might have won, but the House sent the election to "the establishment," which went for Adams over Jackson, who was often portrayed as an uncontrollable warlord. In truth, he was often sophisticated, although he was independent-minded and controversial. 

[Pringles]

2 minutes ago, vcczar said:

The Corrupt Bargain was mainly Jacksonian Propaganda. I've read a few books on the 1800 election. I have my notes for one of these on my blog: historymonocle.com

The bargain is the assumption that Clay endorsed Adams in exchange for the position of Sec of State. The endorsement was framed as suspicious because Clay, like Jackson, was a western man. It was also assumed that Clay was waiting for offer from both Jackson and Adams to make his decision on whom to endorse. It was also assumed Clay had control of several states in the House election. It was assumed Jackson won the EV and the PV. However, this is what is often considered the actual case by scholars: 

- Henry Clay was long expected to be a Sec of State option for any of the candidates. 

- While Clay was a Western man his advocated "American System" of a protective tariff and internal improvements fit most naturally with an Adams presidency. Additionally, Clay believed he wouldn't become president after Jackson, considering Jackson was another Westerner. He though it would be easier to follow a Northerner as president. 

- Clay wasn't waiting for offers. Letters show he was soundly behind Adams as soon as election results showed that no one reached the required EVs. Clay never considered Jackson or Crawford. 

- Henry Clay was Speaker, but he was not the most influential person in other states. The Whigs and National Republicans were not yet a party, so he wasn't even the most influential person in his party. He was Speaker during a time when the Speakership was weaker than it is now. That isn't to say he had no influence, however. 

- Jackson led in the EV. He didn't win it. Those that voted for Clay or Crawford had a right to decide between Jackson and Adams. 

- Jackson led in the PV, but several states didn't even have a popular vote yet, including NY, which was the most populated state. The author of one book suggests that NY was so pro-Adams that Adams would have likely won the PV had the people been allowed to vote, rather than the legislature. 

Had it been a standard two-person race, Jackson might have won, but the House sent the election to "the establishment," which went for Adams over Jackson, who was often portrayed as an uncontrollable warlord. In truth, he was often sophisticated, although he was independent-minded and controversial. 

Interesting. I was just being facetious about the corrupt bargain. I know it was an extremely overblown issue, but it eventually came back to bite Clay in the ass for the rest of his life. Democrats knew how to push the narratives back then lol. Interesting insight though! 

[vcczar]

27 minutes ago, Pringles said:

Interesting. I was just being facetious about the corrupt bargain. I know it was an extremely overblown issue, but it eventually came back to bite Clay in the ass for the rest of his life. Democrats knew how to push the narratives back then lol. Interesting insight though! 

You're right it did haunt Clay for the rest of his career or at least until he became so old that wasn't considered a strong nominee anymore. 

[Edouard]

Two things led my vote

1st Is this president more progressive on civil liberties than the previous

2nd is this president a better person overall

[Sean F Kennedy]

11 minutes ago, Edouard said:

Two things led my vote

1st Is this president more progressive on civil liberties than the previous

2nd is this president a better person overall

That was my logic as well

[MrPotatoTed]

Looks like the only President to not receive a single vote is DJT.  Fitting.

[MrPotatoTed]

Even though I usually list Harry S. Truman as my favorite President, I just ran through all the brackets on my own and it came down to Lincoln vs. Truman.  That was a tough call.  Both wartime Presidents.  Both made major moves towards racial equality.  Both came from similar backgrounds.  

But in the end, I have to give it to my boy Harry.  "The buck stops here" has always been the leadership style I try to emulate at work.

[pilight]

Martin Van Buren vs Jimmy Carter

What a nothing contest this is

 

Millard Fillmore vs Dwight D Eisenhower

The Ike love continues to baffle me

[vcczar]

John Adams is the only president with unanimous support. 

[MrPotatoTed]

1 hour ago, pilight said:

The Ike love continues to baffle me

You're sleeping on my boy Ike!

- Achieved peace on the Korean Peninsula, which (usually) has remained in place to this day.

- Successfully demanded British/French/Israeli troops end their manufactured invasion of Egypt, effectively ending Britain's role as one of the Great Powers

-  He created NASA!

- Despite being a Republican, he continued most of FDR's "New Deal" policies and even expanded Social Security

- He personally brought and end to "McCarthyism"

- He signed the Civil Rights Act of 1957 -- the first significant piece of civil rights legislation in nearly 100 years, protecting black voting rights, establishing the US Commission on Civil Rights, and the Department of Justice's Civil Rights division.  

- When racists tried to block black students from attending public schools that were previously all-white, Eisenhower deployed the freaking US Army to defeat the racists.

- He created highways!

- He passed legislation promoting more science education!

- Despite being arguably even more famous for having been a US General, he warned the country about the growing Military-Industrial complex

- And he oversaw enormous economic growth for nearly all 8 years in office.

And that's all just as President, without even getting into his victorious leadership through World War II.  

[MrPotatoTed]

37 minutes ago, vcczar said:

John Adams is the only president with unanimous support. 

I think it's more that Trump is only President without ANY support. ;c)

[Edouard]

4 hours ago, vcczar said:

John Adams is the only president with unanimous support. 

Old founder enough to please republican voters and much greater man than Trump, he at least helped the US to have a Constitution

[Pringles]

6 hours ago, pilight said:

Martin Van Buren vs Jimmy Carter

What a nothing contest this is

 

Millard Fillmore vs Dwight D Eisenhower

The Ike love continues to baffle me

How does one not like Ike? 

[pilight]

46 minutes ago, Pringles said:

How does one not like Ike? 

He allowed his chief of staff to take bribes (the vicuña coat)

He expanded Truman's lip service "Loyalty Order" to cover all federal employees and to include far more broad definitions of "disloyal" behavior and authorized the FBI to investigate allegations under it, thus giving Joe McCarthy free reign to ruin people's lives

He put the full weight of the White House behind the fully corrupt Dixon-Yates plan

He picked a VP who was already busy in 1952 trying to convince people he wasn't a crook

He let the Soviets install a puppet government in Cuba, less than 100 miles from the continental US

He stuck the first US fist into the Vietnam tar baby

[vcczar]

@Patine needs to vote before it times out.

[vcczar]

@Patine has less than a day to take this poll if he wants to do it.

[vcczar]

2 minutes ago, Patine said:

Oh, let it move on. I don't usually do these bracket things. Don't let me hold up progress for everyone else.

No prob. There's a timer that closes the poll.