vcczar Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Respond with the new agree or disagree emotes. 2 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Welfare may have its positives and negatives,but it should not be completely cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiw Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Like hell it should! If that happened, the poor would have zero chance at life. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishfox Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Lol. This is what would happen in Donald Trump’s America 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 12 minutes ago, Mishfox said: Lol. This is what would happen in Donald Trump’s America 🙄 More like Ron Paul's America. 😛 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishfox Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 22 minutes ago, Pringles said: More like Ron Paul's America. 😛 Ron Paul is just Donald Trump but pro-weed 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvikings1 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 A gradual move off of federal government dependency (to allow private forces to prepare to provide necessary services/help or allow states to come up with their own plans) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvikings1 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Just now, Mishfox said: Ron Paul is just Donald Trump but pro-weed No... just no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted June 10, 2021 Author Share Posted June 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, jvikings1 said: A gradual move off of federal government dependency (to allow private forces to prepare to provide necessary services/help or allow states to come up with their own plans) I'm okay with states and private forces taking over if it is a better alternative to the federal welfare. By better I mean: Covers the same or more people in need of it. The services provided are of the same or better quality. The welfare is more efficient and pro-active The money is spent more efficiently but without cutting money just to cut money. That is, it finds a way to reduce costs without reducing quality and coverage. If the state or private sector can do all four of these, I could support removing that state's welfare from the federal government. The problem is the states that like government least often need the most welfare (per capita) and have a state government that is least equipped to handle welfare on their own. Federal money is going into it regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blood Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 16 minutes ago, Mishfox said: Ron Paul is just Donald Trump but pro-weed My mind melted reading this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 17 minutes ago, Mishfox said: Ron Paul is just Donald Trump but pro-weed Reminds me of the TrUmp iS a LiBerTariAn argument that I once had with a substitute teacher... it didn't go very well for her. 😛 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishfox Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Just now, Pringles said: Reminds me of the TrUmp iS a LiBerTariAn argument that I once had with a substitute teacher... it didn't go very well for her. 😛 I’m not saying Trump is libertarian, but that “libertarians” are just reactionaries that are afraid of calling themselves what they are: fascists. When the chips are down these “libertarians” will support big government when it comes to abortion, hurting immigrants, hurting women, hurting BIPOC, and being imperialist. Every. Single. Time. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Just now, Mishfox said: I’m not saying Trump is libertarian, but that “libertarians” are just reactionaries that are afraid of calling themselves what they are: fascists. When the chips are down these “libertarians” will support big government when it comes to abortion, hurting immigrants, hurting women, hurting BIPOC, and being imperialist. Every. Single. Time. Libertarians are pro-choice. Libertarians are extremely pro-immigrant. They make the Democrats look like conservatives and the Progressives like moderates. Libertarians are die-hard non-interventionists. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Mishfox said: I’m not saying Trump is libertarian, but that “libertarians” are just reactionaries that are afraid of calling themselves what they are: fascists. When the chips are down these “libertarians” will support big government when it comes to abortion, hurting immigrants, hurting women, hurting BIPOC, and being imperialist. Every. Single. Time. You have no real knowledge of what a Libertarian is. Just like your lack of knowledge on what a socialist is. 😐 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cenzonico Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 24 minutes ago, Mishfox said: Ron Paul is just Donald Trump but pro-weed Now thats what I call a shit take! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 "The U.S. government, as practically everyone knows, is not and never has been fascist or anything like it--though there was a time when some of our Southern states were near-fascist so far as their black citizens were concerned. People who talk of "fascists" in Washington merely reveal their own ignorance: under a real fascist government, they'd be talking through bars--if at all." - Robert Claiborne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishfox Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Just now, Timur said: Libertarians are pro-choice. Libertarians are extremely pro-immigrant. They make the Democrats look like conservatives and the Progressives like moderates. Libertarians are die-hard non-interventionists. Well yes, but what you are referring to are libertarian socialists and anarcho socialists, the only true form of libertarianism. I guess I should have specified that I was referring to the right wing “libertarians” that are so popular on the websites like 4chan etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted June 10, 2021 Author Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Timur said: Libertarians are pro-choice. Libertarians are extremely pro-immigrant. They make the Democrats look like conservatives and the Progressives like moderates. Libertarians are die-hard non-interventionists. A lot of libertarians in Texas (where I'm from, but where I no longer live) are very anti-immigrant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishfox Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Just now, Timur said: "The U.S. government, as practically everyone knows, is not and never has been fascist or anything like it--though there was a time when some of our Southern states were near-fascist so far as their black citizens were concerned. People who talk of "fascists" in Washington merely reveal their own ignorance: under a real fascist government, they'd be talking through bars--if at all." - Robert Claiborne Good thing Eugene Debs was free to go in non-fascist America, after all we never imprison dissidents! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blood Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, Mishfox said: I’m not saying Trump is libertarian, but that “libertarians” are just reactionaries that are afraid of calling themselves what they are: fascists. When the chips are down these “libertarians” will support big government when it comes to abortion, hurting immigrants, hurting women, hurting BIPOC, and being imperialist. Every. Single. Time. I do not agree with many of the views of right-wing libertarians, and I admit, many people who call themselves libertarians can just be wackos who dislike the government while still being bigots, but this is such a massive mischaracterization of libertarian ideology. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Timur said: Libertarians are pro-choice. Libertarians are extremely pro-immigrant. They make the Democrats look like conservatives and the Progressives like moderates. Libertarians are die-hard non-interventionists. While I in no way agree with what Mish is saying, I think the first two can be qualified as stretches in the modern day definition of "Libertarians". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishfox Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Just now, The Blood said: I do not agree with many of the views of right-wing libertarians, and I admit, many people who call themselves libertarians can just be wackos who dislike the government while still being bigots, but this is such a massive mischaracterization of libertarian ideology. Ill admit there are some libertarians I agree with, mainly libertarian socialists / social libertarians. Sadly the majority are all far right 😕 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blood Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Mishfox said: Well yes, but what you are referring to are libertarian socialists and anarcho socialists, the only true form of libertarianism. I guess I should have specified that I was referring to the right wing “libertarians” that are so popular on the websites like 4chan etc. No, there are quite a few free-market worshiping right-wing libertarians who have those takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishfox Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Just now, The Blood said: No, there are quite a few free-market worshiping right-wing libertarians who have those takes. Yeah right. Just look at Liberty Lobby, the Koch Brothers, Rand Paul, or any of the other so called libertarians and you’ll see the truth about their “ideology”. Scratch a libertarian, and a fascist bleeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Hestia said: While I in no way agree with what Mish is saying, I think the first two can be qualified as stretches in the modern day definition of "Libertarians". The reason I said they were extreme pro-immigrant was because I remember listening to one of their debates, and some of the candidates were literally anti-border ("borders are imaginary lines drawn on a map by politicians"). I don't think the Libertarian Party is anti-immigration in general though. https://www.lp.org/issues/immigration/ And while the Libertarian Party is officially neutral on abortion, members are more likely to be pro-choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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