Which NFL QB is Naturally the Best?

[vcczar]

New poll

[jvikings1]

From a purely physical standpoint, no one is better than prime Rodgers. His combination of arm talent, decision making, elusiveness, and accuracy is unmatched.

Mahomes has the potential to become the best, but it is still too early in his career to make him such.

[vcczar]

27 minutes ago, jvikings1 said:

From a purely physical standpoint, no one is better than prime Rodgers. His combination of arm talent, decision making, elusiveness, and accuracy is unmatched.

Mahomes has the potential to become the best, but it is still too early in his career to make him such.

Rodgers is definitely in the running. My top 5 is probably: 

1. Otto Graham (went to 10 straight championships and just seemed miles ahead of every other QB. I'm assuming using 21st century workouts and healthcare and such, he'd be close to as unstoppable).  He also was the leader in QB rushing TDs until Steve Young broke his record in the late 1990s. 

2. Peyton Manning

3. Steve Young

4. Aaron Rodgers

5. Dan Marino

[vcczar]

I should also add that Graham was playing during a time when defensive players could basically cheat to sack the QB, get interceptions, etc. It was not passer friendly.

[MrPotatoTed]

Trick question!

The correct answer is Ben Roethlisberger.

;c)

[Rezi]

As of now, Tom Brady. However, I answered Mahomes because I believe he will eventually he the greatest of all time.

[Cal]

No Blake Bortles? 🤨

[SilentLiberty]

Brady or Montana. The love of the Golden Domers makes me want to pick Montana but Brady is just super human.

[vcczar]

Here’s another way to look at this. I’ll compare only Manning, Brady, Rodgers here. NFL reference had some advanced stats. Here’s how many times these QBs get 120+ in a season (100 is avg QB) in YA, TD%, COMP%, low int%. 
 

Brady - 14

Manning - 23

Rodgers - 22

I got time for some more:

Montana 19

Young 23

Unitas 15

Graham 22

Elway 5

Marino 10

Brees 26

Mahomes 5

Favre 13

Staubach 14

This would suggest Brees might have been the greatest pure passer but that Rodgers might surpass him. 

[SilentLiberty]

1 hour ago, vcczar said:

Here’s another way to look at this. I’ll compare only Manning, Brady, Rodgers here. NFL reference had some advanced stats. Here’s how many times these QBs get 120+ in a season (100 is avg QB) in YA, TD%, COMP%, low int%. 
 

Brady - 14

Manning - 23

Rodgers - 22

I got time for some more:

Montana 19

Young 23

Unitas 15

Graham 22

Elway 5

Marino 10

Brees 26

Mahomes 5

Favre 13

Staubach 14

This would suggest Brees might have been the greatest pure passer but that Rodgers might surpass him. 

You know I think Brees has done such a good job at being great for so long and somehow managing to fly so under the radar for good portions of his career.

[vcczar]

11 hours ago, SilentLiberty said:

You know I think Brees has done such a good job at being great for so long and somehow managing to fly so under the radar for good portions of his career.

When I have time I'll do a list, ranking the QBs by passing efficiency, which won't include wins and awards. When one considers this, one realized how overrated Elway, Namath, Moon, E Manning, and a few others are. They arguably got some wins despite these QBs at times and the other times they were just plain lucky. I think these QBs were above average to good at their best moments. Elway couldn't win a SB until he got Terrell Davis at RB. If you look at his SB stats in his 3 losses, you'll notice that he basically cost his team those wins. Namath wouldn't even be in the HoF if not for upsetting the Colts. His stats are terrible. 

[jvikings1]

16 hours ago, vcczar said:

Here’s another way to look at this. I’ll compare only Manning, Brady, Rodgers here. NFL reference had some advanced stats. Here’s how many times these QBs get 120+ in a season (100 is avg QB) in YA, TD%, COMP%, low int%. 
 

Brady - 14

Manning - 23

Rodgers - 22

I got time for some more:

Montana 19

Young 23

Unitas 15

Graham 22

Elway 5

Marino 10

Brees 26

Mahomes 5

Favre 13

Staubach 14

This would suggest Brees might have been the greatest pure passer but that Rodgers might surpass him. 

Brees is likely inflated because of his completion percentage later in his career (and also from when he was throwing for 5,000 yards a season in the middle of his career cause their defense and run game were non-existent)

[vcczar]

19 minutes ago, jvikings1 said:

Brees is likely inflated because of his completion percentage later in his career (and also from when he was throwing for 5,000 yards a season in the middle of his career cause their defense and run game were non-existent)

The above efficiency wouldn't be moved by 5,000 yard passing games. If I included raw yardage into the measure then Marino would score higher too. I don't think pass attempts, which allows for massive yardage, is a good model for efficiency. I'm factoring on what happens when they throw the ball. 

The closest factor to yardage is YA but that has more to do with completions, an area where Brees is unrivaled. It's even more impressive considering it was expected Brees would pass almost every down. It was no mystery. He's likely have an even higher comp% in a normal offense, I think. 

His comp% was elite for his last 11 seasons and sporadically before then. 

Overall, Brees might be the most efficient QB in history, which is even more impressive when considering he played his career with PManning and Brady. 

 

[jvikings1]

5 minutes ago, vcczar said:

The above efficiency wouldn't be moved by 5,000 yard passing games. If I included raw yardage into the measure then Marino would score higher too. I don't think pass attempts, which allows for massive yardage, is a good model for efficiency. I'm factoring on what happens when they throw the ball. 

The closest factor to yardage is YA but that has more to do with completions, an area where Brees is unrivaled. It's even more impressive considering it was expected Brees would pass almost every down. It was no mystery. He's likely have an even higher comp% in a normal offense, I think. 

His comp% was elite for his last 11 seasons and sporadically before then. 

Overall, Brees might be the most efficient QB in history, which is even more impressive when considering he played his career with PManning and Brady. 

 

Ah, I didn't catch that. Though I don't think you can completely write off the mass volume stats. Some QBs (like Favre were great) because of them, even if his efficiency was lower. It is also usually a sign of a player having to carry a team (again a testament of their abilities).

I agree Brees is one of the most efficient (of not the most) QBs in history, which is impressive because of his high volume seasons in the middle of his career. Definitely a more underrated player. As much as I hate the Saints, it is a shame he never won MVP. I will always contend that he deserved it in 2011 over Rodgers.

[pilight]

On 6/14/2021 at 12:12 PM, jvikings1 said:

From a purely physical standpoint, no one is better than prime Rodgers. His combination of arm talent, decision making, elusiveness, and accuracy is unmatched.

Mahomes has the potential to become the best, but it is still too early in his career to make him such.

The game isn't purely physical, though

[vcczar]

Here’s a long list of my efficiency scores:

Brady - 14

Manning - 23

Rodgers - 22

Montana 19

Young 23

Unitas 15

Graham 22

Elway 5

Marino 10

Brees 26

Mahomes 5

Favre 13

Staubach 14

Roethlisberger 12

E Manning 1

M Ryan 7

Moon 6

Tarkenton 13

Fouts 11

J Kelly 8

Romo 8

R Wilson 9

Tittle 17

Aikman 11

Warner 12

K Anderson 16

Jurgensen 9

Bradshaw 8

Stabler 10

Namath 1

Layne 1

Starr 14

Van Brocklin 10

Waterfield 5

Lamonica 5

Baugh 26

Luckman 15

Brees and Baugh tie with 26. However, Baugh only had Luckman, and Herber as rival QBs of talent.

[jvikings1]

22 hours ago, pilight said:

The game isn't purely physical, though

When I say physical, I include mental attributes in that. Rodgers decision making is up there for best in history. It's the combination of arm talent and the mental abilities which make him so great.

He has always been surrounded by average to subpar management, thus limiting his ultimate success (that is a Super Bowl). But, if you put him on Brady's Patriots teams, it is very likely Rodgers is racking up the rings.

[vcczar]

1 minute ago, jvikings1 said:

When I say physical, I include mental attributes in that. Rodgers decision making is up there for best in history. It's the combination of arm talent and the mental abilities which make him so great.

He has always been surrounded by average to subpar management, thus limiting his ultimate success (that is a Super Bowl). But, if you put him on Brady's Patriots teams, it is very likely Rodgers is racking up the rings.

For decision making, I'd say Rodgers, Brees, P Manning, Montana, Marino and in no particular order. Montana is kind of hard to beat. It's like he never made a mistake, but he also had Jerry Rice. 

[jvikings1]

1 minute ago, vcczar said:

For decision making, I'd say Rodgers, Brees, P Manning, Montana, Marino and in no particular order. Montana is kind of hard to beat. It's like he never made a mistake, but he also had Jerry Rice. 

I'd put Brady up there as well. That is arguably his best feature. He has never had the strongest arm and has certainly never been mobile/elusive, but he just wins.