Mishfox Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Just now, jvikings1 said: Don't even bother with him. All he knows how to do is spout nonsense without anything to back it up. I disagree with most here, but a large chunk of them can actually an intelligent conversation. Funny how everything you just said perfectly describes you 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Cease and desist here please. Seems like we're getting into bad waters. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blood Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Mishfox said: The two have compatible ideologies. No, not really, sorry. Authoritarian fascism is very much opposed to most libertarian thinking. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishfox Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, Pringles said: Won't mention Stalin though will we? 😐 Stalin wasn’t communist 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvikings1 Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, Pringles said: I don't claim to know everything but I sure as hell know that you, nor Rand Paul, are not Libertarians. (based on YOUR definition.) Regardless of how much rhetoric you may use to assert yourself as a subscriber to that ideology. With that said, I'll wait for other Libertarians to comment because if you feel that I am uneducated on the matter, perhaps you need to hear it from one of your "own." But, to be fair, you already have. There's no changing your mind. I also wasn't trying to make an argument by using the "majority," but I think it is constructive to hear from other Libertarians and opposing view points as it gives all of us an idea of we're discussing here. Your statement on Paul being the Senator that opposes Trump the most is false, especially according to 538 which tracks their positions, with Trumps on bills of that Congressional session. Since we seem to be using selective facts, I just wanted to point that out. If you consider that a decent indicator... (which I think 538 does a great job of.) I should say Republican Senator (my mistake). It went back and forth between him and Susan Collins. You cannot make such a claim when you have not even read The Law (one of the most common pieces discussed amongst libertarians). Oh, and the fact that you dismissed surveillance as an issue (and thought it was funny for me to think it is) shows that you lack understanding. Because that is a significant issue that unites the broader movement. And I must point out, you did not even acknowledge your misstatement on my position regarding phonography. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Mishfox said: Stalin wasn’t communist Sounds like an apologist to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishfox Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Pringles said: Sounds like an apologist to me. More like a true progressive 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenobiyl Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Just now, Mishfox said: More like a true progressive Progressive is when you defend communism 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, Mishfox said: More like a true progressive Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvikings1 Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 15 minutes ago, Patine said: Christians aren't being oppressed. This is isn't the Diocletian Persecutions. An NGO promoting values that aren't very representative of the tenor and spirit of Ministry of Christ (many of them never mentioned by Christ or His Apostles) is being taxed for using it's money in secular political campaigns. Yes, Christians are reaching the point where persecution will come their way, even in the United States. There were pastors who kept their churches open this past year who were threatened with jail time. Police were sent to churches on Easter Sunday to intimidate worshipers and threaten them. In this case, a group is expressing Christian positions and being threatened for it. In other cases, places are being threatened for maintaining support of traditional (and Biblical) marriage. The viewpoints of this NGO are purely modern-day political and secular. Just because they dress it up, disingenuously, as being Christian (when Christ and His Apostles never spoke on or endorsed such ideas) should not give them a tax exemption, or THAT leads, eventually, to every lobby group or campaign donor conniving and contriving a tax exemption. Kind of the other way around here. These two groups used (and their much less-well funded and successful predecessor groups) were in the political winds until the Democratic Party (at least a large chunk of it, and quite probably, initially out of political opportunism, ultimately) decided to become associated with them, and relatively recently. The Democratic Party of the United States, as a money, did not put money into the court case Roe v. Wade, remember. We are in the here and now. This group was denied because it aligns with positions similar to Republicans. However, those groups do not have there tax exempt status revoked, despite being in line with Democratic positions. As I said above, the group you speak of does not focus on Christian issues. Have you actually read the Ministry of Christs and the Epistles? None of the crap this NGO supports have anything, at all, to with it. They are wolves in sheep's clothing using the Lord's Name in vain for the promotion of Caesar and his agendas. They deserve to be taxed. Yes, this group was supporting Christian values. Supporting legislation that ends the mass extermination of unborn children is important to Christians. Protecting the ability to worship freely (including being able to be open about traditional, and Biblically supported, views on sexuality/marriage) is very much in line with the church. Promoting Christian engagement with society (including political institutions) is inline with the church. Just because something is not a church does not mean they cannot benefit from religious freedom protections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cenzonico Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 A phony, a commie, Patine, and a neo-con walk into a bar... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, Cenzonico said: A phony, a commie, Patine, and a neo-con walk into a bar... Mish the neo-con Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, Cenzonico said: A phony, a commie, Patine, and a neo-con walk into a bar... This path of destruction is about as bad as the one we made in Iraq... Jeesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobs Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 2 hours ago, jvikings1 said: thus making it harder to pass things like constitutional carry, school choice, etc.). I have never once opposed these things? What are you talking about. I’ve always worked to counter doubt especially in populations we need to reach. And it’s because I understand those populations that I so strongly oppose folks like Trump and false idols of his kind. I am not your enemy and it’s disturbing to see the kind of flak you’ll throw at me as if I were. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cenzonico Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, Patine said: I don't drink, and I don't go into bars... Just for the sake of the joke. Even if its a very basic one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cenzonico Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Just now, Patine said: I'm afraid it is a policy with no exceptions. Besides, I fail to see the humour. I think you're joke has bombed already. Don't give up your day job. The Improv audiences are mean, and will break your heart, if you don't have already have solid funny man or woman cred and reputation... 😉 "And the awkward introverted teen fails to make an impression once again!" sigh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 15 minutes ago, Cenzonico said: Just for the sake of the joke. Even if its a very basic one. It's ok Cen. I found your joke funny. 😞 love you bro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezi Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Patine said: I'm afraid it is a policy with no exceptions. Besides, I fail to see the humour. I think you're joke has bombed already. Don't give up your day job. The Improv audiences are mean, and will break your heart, if you don't have already have solid funny man or woman cred and reputation... 😉 *your* Edited June 21, 2021 by Rezi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvikings1 Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 44 minutes ago, Dobs said: I have never once opposed these things? What are you talking about. I’ve always worked to counter doubt especially in populations we need to reach. And it’s because I understand those populations that I so strongly oppose folks like Trump and false idols of his kind. I am not your enemy and it’s disturbing to see the kind of flak you’ll throw at me as if I were. By supporting Joe Biden and groups like the Lincoln Project, you made these tasks much harder. They are no friends of those causes and their supporters would gladly throw people like you into the furnace at any point if it would benefit them. This isn't about Trump. Plenty of good liberty folks I know did not support/vote for him, but they also did not go around promoting Joe Biden like you did. Because the deep state/Establishment/left is not and never will be a friend/ally. Such an action casts doubt on where you actually stand (actions speak louder than words). Maybe my opinion would change if you show something for that to happen, but I have not seen it yet. Today, your comment strengthened an attempt to undermine a part (although small) of the argument against taxation of churches (something you should support based on your claimed positions) because of a technicality (which could actually be explained by context). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Just now, jvikings1 said: Maybe my opinion would change if you show something for that to happen, but I have not seen it yet. Today, your comment strengthened an attempt to undermine a part (although small) of the argument against taxation of churches (something you should support based on your claimed positions) because of a technicality (which could actually be explained by context). So if someone has any comment (however small) contradictory to an overall ideology, they should just shut up and let it go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Just now, Patine said: Do you really type these terms with sincerity and a straight face when you post them? Despite our disagreements, I think you're onto something there my friend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvikings1 Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 49 minutes ago, Patine said: "Yes, this group was supporting Christian values. Supporting legislation that ends the mass extermination of unborn children is important to Christians. Protecting the ability to worship freely (including being able to be open about traditional, and Biblically supported, views on sexuality/marriage) is very much in line with the church. Promoting Christian engagement with society (including political institutions) is inline with the church. Just because something is not a church does not mean they cannot benefit from religious freedom protections." @jvikings1 Christ does not differentiate between murder of the unborn and any other kind of murder, regardless of target or intent, in terms of gravity of sinfulness. I might have more respect for the Pro-Life lobby if they were REALLY Pro-Life - and also opposed capital punishment, death caused by corporate and free-market excesses and inequity, death caused by the effects many other laws and policies, and even war in all but the most egregious and existential threats of true defense (and, even then, still acknowledging murder has been done and seeking penitence and forgiveness). But it's only ever abortion and, often, euthanasia, of those they rail against, and thus the utter two-faced hypocrisy of the majority of the, "Pro-Life," movement. Until they acknowledge ALL deliberate killing of anyone for any reason, as sinful, and stop falling back on the, "Hierarchy of Sins," created by Medieval Roman Catholic Theocrats, and not by Christ or the Apostles, I don't want to hear ANY preaching by them. Capital punishment is not murder and such punishment existed within the Bible. But, there is a very large chuck of the pro-life movement that opposes the death penalty. It it is also worth mentioning that the death penalty is fast fading in the United States. This is not a very big issue (and may even be extinct in the near future). Abortion is not a fading issue and is something that results in the deaths of millions every year. That is why it has such a focus. It may surprise you to learn that there are only two mentions of, "marriage," in the New Testament - where Christ declares the old Ghett of Jewish Law is no longer valid, and (a set of verses often quoted at Christian marriages, including my sisters' a couple years ago," where Paul laments never marrying. Also, homosexuality is not mentioned one, verifiably, except MAYBE in the, "eunuch verse," which is highly ambiguous and contextual to Christ's time, and is phrased in a matter-of-factly, not condemnatory way, and Paul's verses condemning temple prostitution of young boys is often seen as being a condemnation for homosexuality, as a whole, and I believe the New World Bible puts the word, "homosexuality," in there, even though no single word or term existed in any of those languages of Antiquity for the phenomenon as a whole. Romans 1: 26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9; 1 Timothy 1:10; Matthew 19:5-6 (the design of marriage) Yes, it is settled that marriage is between one man and one woman and all sexual relations outside (whether heterosexual or homosexual) of that is unbiblical. A man sleeping with another man's wife if just as bad and should also be called out. ALL sexual immorality is sinful. The homosexual issue is one that reaches greater lengths these days because there is an attempt to infiltrate the church with such bad/false doctrine. People who support such doctrine are the wolves in sheep's clothing that you like to refer to. This NGO also seems to push the 2nd Amendment, U.S.-Israel relations, State's rights, and other such modern, SECULAR issues that have nothing at all to do with Christian doctrine or belief as though they were Christian doctrinal issues. A Christian group does not have to hold positions that are backed exclusively by the Bible. It is possible to be a strong practicing Christian and also support those positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenobiyl Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 16 minutes ago, jvikings1 said: By supporting Joe Biden and groups like the Lincoln Project, you made these tasks much harder. They are no friends of those causes and their supporters would gladly throw people like you into the furnace at any point if it would benefit them. This isn't about Trump. Plenty of good liberty folks I know did not support/vote for him, but they also did not go around promoting Joe Biden like you did. Because the deep state/Establishment/left is not and never will be a friend/ally. Such an action casts doubt on where you actually stand (actions speak louder than words). Maybe my opinion would change if you show something for that to happen, but I have not seen it yet. Today, your comment strengthened an attempt to undermine a part (although small) of the argument against taxation of churches (something you should support based on your claimed positions) because of a technicality (which could actually be explained by context). “The left aren’t your friends, they will cast you aside without a second thought!” - he says while casting someone aside for wrong-think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvikings1 Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, Patine said: Do you really type these terms with sincerity and a straight face when you post them? Yep, and I am surprised you are so willing to deny that the deep state does not exist within the political establishment considering your disdain for those in power. You might want to pick something and stick with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvikings1 Posted June 21, 2021 Author Share Posted June 21, 2021 18 minutes ago, Hestia said: So if someone has any comment (however small) contradictory to an overall ideology, they should just shut up and let it go? Nope. That is a minor detail in the matter (but shows a scenario where he throw away a chance to prove me wrong on the matter). Supporting Joe Biden is the major contradiction that raises major red flags (and makes things difficult for liberty minded folks). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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