Timur Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Forget Pfizer, Modena, AstraZenica, etc. Let's go to the really good stuff like Sputnik and Sinopharm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPotatoTed Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Haven't heard a word about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Don’t trust them but... I may still take one. Might get superpowers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 What about a North Korean vaccine? Or do they get shipments of them from China... or do their people believe that God Emperor Kim Jong Un has spread a plague across the realm because of his dissatisfaction with the people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cenzonico Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 32 minutes ago, Pringles said: What about a North Korean vaccine? Or do they get shipments of them from China... or do their people believe that God Emperor Kim Jong Un has spread a plague across the realm because of his dissatisfaction with the people? *Glorious Leader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodja Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 Every vaccine is better than no vaccine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted July 9, 2021 Author Share Posted July 9, 2021 9 hours ago, Pringles said: What about a North Korean vaccine? Or do they get shipments of them from China... or do their people believe that God Emperor Kim Jong Un has spread a plague across the realm because of his dissatisfaction with the people? North Korea tried to steal the Pfizer recipe through hacking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobs Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 9 hours ago, Rodja said: Every vaccine is better than no vaccine. Why does this not surprise me from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodja Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 22 minutes ago, Dobs said: Why does this not surprise me from you. Why would it?I would rather get a Russian,Chinese or even Burundian vaccine than go unvaxed and risk getting and spreading this terrible disease.The real surprise is why you dont think so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dobs Posted July 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 9, 2021 12 minutes ago, Rodja said: Why would it?I would rather get a Russian,Chinese or even Burundian vaccine than go unvaxed and risk getting and spreading this terrible disease.The real surprise is why you dont think so? I should have elaborated more. I think I have a good understanding of both of our politics and worldview. You are an internationalist of the highest order, a globalist even. Geopolitics always comes second to what you perceive as humanitarian good. Even if that means risking yourself on an enemy’s unproven vaccine. I find this noble- do not for a second think I’m attacking, I am not my friend. I’m a little different. My global worldview is still based in the simple fact that I remain a 21st century Cold Warrior. Trust of Russia has never been part of my MO and given that China is our new global opponent, I certainly won’t take a shifty vaccine for a disease that they more likely than not created and accidentally (or many purposefully, the CCP is fucked up) let loose on the world. None of this is to say I’m anti-vaccine. I think the people who stand opposed to western vaccines actually embolden the forces of communism and authoritarianism just as those opposed to the Space Race at home did in the 1960s. We must embrace the American and British vaccines to ensure they are more effective, safer, and more accessible than our shifty adversaries otherwise the health and well-being of not just our citizens but of the residents of the world will be at their mercy and we will have lost this new leg of the modern Cold War - the Vax Race. I do not fault you for your undying loyalty to what you perceive as good science. I simply cannot perceive Russian or Chinese science is good so long as they take their orders from Putin’s oligarchs or the Chinese Politburo. This our ultimate difference, you say that Russo-Chinese vaccines are better than no vaccine but I would counter that “no vaccine” is not an option. Thankfully, Western medicine has prevailed and the Free World has produced a plethora of options, authoritarian options need not apply and instead ought to be wholesale countered and obsoleted. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rodja Posted July 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 9, 2021 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Dobs said: I should have elaborated more. I think I have a good understanding of both of our politics and worldview. You are an internationalist of the highest order, a globalist even. Geopolitics always comes second to what you perceive as humanitarian good. Even if that means risking yourself on an enemy’s unproven vaccine. I find this noble- do not for a second think I’m attacking, I am not my friend. I’m a little different. My global worldview is still based in the simple fact that I remain a 21st century Cold Warrior. Trust of Russia has never been part of my MO and given that China is our new global opponent, I certainly won’t take a shifty vaccine for a disease that they more likely than not created and accidentally (or many purposefully, the CCP is fucked up) let loose on the world. None of this is to say I’m anti-vaccine. I think the people who stand opposed to western vaccines actually embolden the forces of communism and authoritarianism just as those opposed to the Space Race at home did in the 1960s. We must embrace the American and British vaccines to ensure they are more effective, safer, and more accessible than our shifty adversaries otherwise the health and well-being of not just our citizens but of the residents of the world will be at their mercy and we will have lost this new leg of the modern Cold War - the Vax Race. I do not fault you for your undying loyalty to what you perceive as good science. I simply cannot perceive Russian or Chinese science is good so long as they take their orders from Putin’s oligarchs or the Chinese Politburo. This our ultimate difference, you say that Russo-Chinese vaccines are better than no vaccine but I would counter that “no vaccine” is not an option. Thankfully, Western medicine has prevailed and the Free World has produced a plethora of options, authoritarian options need not apply and instead ought to be wholesale countered and obsoleted. Thank you for elaborating,and sorry for tone of my first response,your post without elaboration just sounded like mocking me.Just to clarify,i am thankful that we have our own american made vaccines and that i could get Pfizer rather than Russian vaccine,but if i had no other choice i would get Russian or Chinese one in a heartbeat.After all,i think their vaccines are not that bad because they made them for their people and allied nations so i believe they did their best to make them good quality,if they made vaccines just for America and western hemisphere i would be 99% sure there is Novichok in them. Edited July 9, 2021 by Rodja 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 50 minutes ago, Patine said: It is unfortunate that Nationalism (the toxic ideology and mindset from which so many evils in the world spring from the bedrock and fertile soil of - up to and including irredentism, dehumanization of whole populations, among the most unjust wars, genocide, and Fascism) and nation-state-first and nation-state-rivalry-thinking still plague us so greatly, even in global crises like this, and are stated in just glowing and, "virtuous," portrayals, is very disturbing and even disheartening. The fact we have barely come beyond the Medieval situation of cowering in walled townes and cold castles, huddling in fear, superstitiously, ignorantly, and in fervent, terrible imagination, at the horrors our neighbours MUST be plotting just a stone's throw away shows how little we've really come there compared to many other fields. Stereotyping and broad assumptions of every single motive of foreign Governments on an almost Manichaean axis has been a practically braindead trope (Manichaeanism died as a religion in 15th Century for good reason - it's revival in a non-religious form, not just in pop culture, but in socio-political thinking, has been a true poisoning of the well). I wouldn't say it's even that. The problem is that the Chinese and Russian governments do not require their vaccines to go through as rigorous testing as the FDA, CDC, and European Medical Agency (EMA), as well as various other Western quality control measures (Brazil's comes to mind as well). Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca, J&J all had to pass these quality control measures - and when they seemed to stumble (AstraZeneca and J&J specifically), the agencies took measures to ensure their safety. Russia and China do not have the same rigorous standard as these agencies. This is why medicine takes so long to be approved in the United States, even compared to Europe, but it is by all means safer. Notably, Slovakia purchased 200k Russian vaccines, and then sold the large majority of them back to Russia because it hadn't been approved by Slovak/European authorities, and coalition partners in the Slovak government backed their medical agency's report. I would trust a vaccine from Russia or China if it went through the same rigorous testing that Pfizer, Moderna, and these other vaccines went through. Because they haven't, I don't. That's essentially what Dobs is saying. The governments of China and Russia, because of their leadership, do not require the same amount of safety testing as the US and EU. For that reason, it's unsafe. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/slovakia-sells-most-sputnik-v-vaccine-doses-back-russia-2021-07-02/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Patine said: Whether they're as good or worse (or by some weird fluke, better) is not what's really at stake - it's bad, toxic, "fear-of-the-dark," Tom Clancy- and Robert Ludlum-style stereotypes, with no real academic or scientific value behind, or the desire, by many, to invest too much of it. Or, it's a proper fear based off that the Russian and Chinese vaccines haven't gone through proper safety testing that Western vaccines have gone through, and therefore would not take it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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