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Biden calls Cuba a ‘failed state’, and communism a ‘failed system’


DakotaHale
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Also remarked that socialism was a not-great alternative to capitalism. Thoughts?

On one hand not surprised that he said these things considering the amount of corporate lobbyists in his staff and cabinet. But it’s still surprising considering how leftist/progressive the Democratic Party has shifted since even the 1990s or 2000s. This could also be a campaign tactic to win over some of the economically-right Latino voters in Florida who are descendants of Cuban immigrants who hate Communism and Castro.

Curious to see if Bernie or AOC will say anything in support of the Cuban people. Bernie recently praised the Castro regime and the Cuban government a while before the protests. Neither have made a clear statement as of yet. Interesting how AOC limited comments on her Instagram page recently so she’s clearly aware in some way that people expect her to make some form of statement. I’m just afraid her allegiance isn’t with the people protesting for freedom.

Either way I pray that freedom will be available to the Cuban people soon.

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Not surprising to see leftists deflecting from the failed Cuban system. You also see BLM taking the side of the Cuban government (talk about a bunch of hypocrisy for a group supposedly fighting against oppression). Communism/socialism is a failed experiment that has not and will never work. So those who advocate for it have to avoid bringing attention to this reality.

Though it is not surprising to see Biden make his comments. He's a career politician, and his advisors know the system very well. They'll have him say what sounds good for the current situation. Not sure how much significance can actually be tied to it though (unless this causes some tension within the party).

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1 hour ago, DakotaHale said:

Also remarked that socialism was a not-great alternative to capitalism. Thoughts?

On one hand not surprised that he said these things considering the amount of corporate lobbyists in his staff and cabinet. But it’s still surprising considering how leftist/progressive the Democratic Party has shifted since even the 1990s or 2000s. This could also be a campaign tactic to win over some of the economically-right Latino voters in Florida who are descendants of Cuban immigrants who hate Communism and Castro.

Curious to see if Bernie or AOC will say anything in support of the Cuban people. Bernie recently praised the Castro regime and the Cuban government a while before the protests. Neither have made a clear statement as of yet. Interesting how AOC limited comments on her Instagram page recently so she’s clearly aware in some way that people expect her to make some form of statement. I’m just afraid her allegiance isn’t with the people protesting for freedom.

Either way I pray that freedom will be available to the Cuban people soon.

 

1 hour ago, jvikings1 said:

Not surprising to see leftists deflecting from the failed Cuban system. You also see BLM taking the side of the Cuban government (talk about a bunch of hypocrisy for a group supposedly fighting against oppression). Communism/socialism is a failed experiment that has not and will never work. So those who advocate for it have to avoid bringing attention to this reality.

Though it is not surprising to see Biden make his comments. He's a career politician, and his advisors know the system very well. They'll have him say what sounds good for the current situation. Not sure how much significance can actually be tied to it though (unless this causes some tension within the party).

This is one reason why I do not support the left even if I may agree with them on a few issues.

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1 minute ago, Timur said:

 

This is one reason why I do not support the left even if I may agree with them on a few issues.

I think i would have sided Castro & Che's in their fight against Battista, but that was before they became killers themselves.

Edited by Timur
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As a left wing Democrat who identifies as democratic socialist,i must say that neither me nor any of my friends who label themselves simmilar support Cuban communist regime,so there is nothing surprising in Biden condemning them,i think if Bernie was president he would do the same thing.People really need to learn the difference between DEMOCRATIC socialism and TOTALITARIAN communism

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Just now, Rodja said:

As a left wing Democrat who identifies as democratic socialist,i must say that neither me nor any of my friends who label themselves simmilar support Cuban communist regime,so there is nothing surprising in Biden condemning them,i think if Bernie was president he would do the same thing.People really need to learn the difference between DEMOCRATIC socialism and TOTALITARIAN communism

There is a difference. It just seems that too many Social Democrats, Democratic Socialists, etc. seem to have a soft side for the Communists.  Of course, I respect Norman Thomas's condemnation of Soviet Union.

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6 minutes ago, Timur said:

I think i would have sided Castro & Che's in their fight against Battista, but that was before they became killers themselves.

Castro was a murderous tyrant,but i always tend to think about Che a bit different,as and idealist and a symbol of the revolution.I guess you either die a hero(Che),or live long enough to become a villain(Castro)

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18 minutes ago, Patine said:

 

Please, don't stereotype a whole, entire wing of the political spectrum as sharing the toxic views and bad faux paus of a few specific instances, groups, and behaviours. 

I hope it's a few cases because many people identified as left wing have a soft spot for Castro.

BTW, I do not support the apartheid regime, Pinochet, Franco, etc. either.

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38 minutes ago, Patine said:

 And, please, stop speaking of the whole half of the political spectrum as though it were a single, unified, solid, ideologically-coherent movement in lockstep. 

Please give me a good example of someone in the Left Wing who has condemned Castro.

Edited by Timur
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32 minutes ago, Patine said:

Keep in mind that there's actually a lot more more ammunition out there in political history to turn that disingenuous attitude on the right-wing of the spectrum in such a way, should one wish to do so

I am not a big fan of many hard right wingers either. Also, I was talking of this particular case. In the case of the Soviet Union, I understand that Michael Harrington and Norman Thomas have condemned it.

 

While I have described myself as a conservative, my views seem to be all over the place.

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41 minutes ago, Patine said:

Jordan Petersen. So, please, just get out of the habit of speaking in such a ridiculous manner and making a fool of yourself.

1) I don't remember him using that term in that manner. Not sure of what to think of him, though I know about him somewhat.

2) I remember this is my first time I've used the term "Left" and that way.

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17 minutes ago, Patine said:

 

 

I think you fail to understand the breadth of ideologies in the Left-Wing of the Spectrum that are seemingly stereotyping with a few movements, and labelling the entirety of, the whole wing of the spectrum. Plus, a lot of prominent politicians, ideologues, and pundits across many left-wing movement have not had reason to public utter Castro's name. I don't believe the only New Democratic Premier (a Canadian Provincial Premier is the analog here of a U.S. State Governor) of Alberta, Rachel Notley (in office 2015-2019) was ever known to speak of him publicly, for instance. I haven't actually been obsessively following chatter on praise and condemnation of Castro so intently, so I couldn't answer the question off-hand.

I was referring to rhetoric, not people, so not so much so. Even Paul condemned, "careless words," so I'm probably in better company than you seem to indicate.

Anthony Burgoyne's admiration for Jordan Petersen and his screeds is irrational, bizarre, and disturbing. My last, permanent ban from the 270soft forums were because I refused to acknowledge Petersen as one of the greatest intellectual minds of Canada, and refused to accept the validity of a vapid, empty, zeitgeist catchphrase when he linked a video by Petersen he EXPECTED would MAGICALLY convert me to, "seeing the light," about the term's validity. When it didn't, he banned me permanently and lied publicly to the community about the reasons.

Perhaps, better said as a cautionary to watch out for in your future posts. 😉

1.Many don't. I doubt Rachel Notley has time to think of Fidel Castro. She's probably more interested in Alberta local affairs. However, those that do mention it seem to have a soft spot. If there are those that are not like that, I commend them.

2.Maybe, maybe not.

3.Maybe, maybe not.

4.Why? And what kind of "caution" to "watch out" are you talking of, pray tell?

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Fidel Castro has been dead for five years and out of office since the GW Bush administration.  There's been no cause to say anything about him in recent years.  Bitcoin, Spotify, Google Chrome, and the Large Hadron Collider didn't exist yet when Castro stepped down as president.

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1 hour ago, Patine said:

Yep, @Pringles, it's the many people like you who refuse to heed the clear and present warning and realize that things need to change and reform on a fundamental level, and just casually, "disagree," with someone pointing out the warnings, holding, "it'll never happen," "we're too big to fail," "the U.S. is the greatest nation, and always will be, and it's nonsense to say otherwise," or, "those thoughts are unpatriotic and unnationalistic, and actually Un-American." Unfortunately, there's far too many like you in the U.S., including in the highest echelons of power, to likely change the doomed course of the nation before it's too. As painful as it is too look ahead at what's realistically there, and work to prevent, or at least, mitigate it, denial and pretending the gravy train will be eternal is far easier. But easier will help no one! And there were many in the old Roman and British Empires, when the warning signs were visible, who willfully ignored them out of pride and insecurity, and tried to silence those who would speak of such things. Where are those empires, now? Does the, "Dustbin of History," have an allure, or acceptability, to you just because you can't face the REAL, and obvious the future, and speak up against the main, but self-destructive, current your nation is on, with no firm hand on the tiller. Wake up and open your eyes! If you're a REAL patriot, you will want to move to point out and help stop this obviously coming demise, not blissfully ignore it and pretend the United States is magically immune to the trends and tendencies of other Great Civilizations of history!

You don’t think the United States is the greatest nation in the history of the world?

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3 hours ago, Patine said:

Also, Biden and most other American politicians, strategists, economists, pundits, and ideologues are caught up in the idea of, "the inevitability of perpetual apex power and economic supremacy without possible realistic or credible challenge," problem - a socio-political self-delusion that also plagued the Roman and British Empires in their day. The fact is, if U.S. politics, methods of governance, economic mismanagement, short-sighted viewpoints, arrogant foreign policy, and sharp, vicious internal social divide continue (and they show sign of stopping, slowing, or being seriously reevaluated), the United States will likely be a, "failed state," in the lifetimes of many people on this forum.

America has a lot of problems. Especially with our current social environment. However, I will never cease my faith in the American people to be resilient, and despite what the media likes to show, and make us seem so divided. We are much more united than you think. And the Trump cult and the leftist extremists are much less representative of this country than you think. To say we're becoming a failed state is absolutely ludicrous. Its people like you who do nothing but spread fear and talk about credit card oppression that contribute to the same wackiness and anger that would come out of a Trump supporter and push us closer to this "failed state." The rest of us are much more realistic. So please, spare us all your fearmongering, doom and gloom nonsense. And go sulk about it by yourself, or, if you feel a little more constructive, write an alt hist to pass the time.

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15 minutes ago, Patine said:

Faith rather than action is such a monastic point of view. I don't say what I say because of cackling glee of a Saturday Morning Cartoon villain or a nihilistic, cynical, deconstructionist, Frankfurt-school pretentious Goth, like you seem to portray. There are very real - and ignored - problems of monumental proportions that are, "inconvenient truths," - unaddressed, because doing so would undermine the current political and plutocratic elite - not because they aren't valid, or even very worrisome problems. And Trump used superficially similar terminology, yes - but only for a cynical power grab that made things worse, not to fix anything. I am nothing like this. Did it not occur to you, when criticizing my motives, what's at stake for me? The U.S. is, "too big to fail," but if - and probably when - they do, there's no one CAPABLE of a bailout, and the whole globe, other than maybe some Brazilian Amazon Rainforest unconnected tribes and isolated people in the highlands of New Guinea, are going with you into a global Dark Age of monstrous proportions! Do not think my concern is pleasure, doom-and-gloom for it's own sake, or other such disingenuous and insulting accusations. I want to the course bettered and steered with a steady hand on the tiller and a clear head as much as any sane and rational person should!

All of us want change for good. However, it is subjective on the how part. A lot of your talking points remind me of the League of Shadows or Joker in the Nolan Batman movies. 

Doom and gloom, "Gotham" (America) is doomed to fail. Just like how the impurity of the Roman society led to us causing their downfall! Let's bring in my solution (which will only create more chaos.) Only to contribute to the fall of the society itself.

Change comes from within. 

I find your thought that I seem to portray a villain of sorts ironic. As it's exactly my view of yourself. Now now, I dont think you're intentionally a villain... however, your doom and gloom seems to enable that sort of character/characteristic.

Edited by Pringles
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6 hours ago, Patine said:

And, as for number 3, there's obviously no maybe's about it. His views and intentions (and lies) were crystal clear.

To each to his opinion. Personally, I don't know. I have seen your & his posts about Jordan Peterson, but I cannot be sure about his motives.

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2 hours ago, Patine said:

Yep, @Pringles, it's the many people like you who refuse to heed the clear and present warning and realize that things need to change and reform on a fundamental level, and just casually, "disagree," with someone pointing out the warnings, holding, "it'll never happen," "we're too big to fail," "the U.S. is the greatest nation, and always will be, and it's nonsense to say otherwise," or, "those thoughts are unpatriotic and unnationalistic, and actually Un-American." Unfortunately, there's far too many like you in the U.S., including in the highest echelons of power, to likely change the doomed course of the nation before it's too. As painful as it is too look ahead at what's realistically there, and work to prevent, or at least, mitigate it, denial and pretending the gravy train will be eternal is far easier. But easier will help no one! And there were many in the old Roman and British Empires, when the warning signs were visible, who willfully ignored them out of pride and insecurity, and tried to silence those who would speak of such things. Where are those empires, now? Does the, "Dustbin of History," have an allure, or acceptability, to you just because you can't face the REAL, and obvious the future, and speak up against the main, but self-destructive, current your nation is on, with no firm hand on the tiller. Wake up and open your eyes! If you're a REAL patriot, you will want to move to point out and help stop this obviously coming demise, not blissfully ignore it and pretend the United States is magically immune to the trends and tendencies of other Great Civilizations of history!

The US is definitely not the greatest nation, nor is it the worst nation.

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2 minutes ago, Timur said:

To each to his opinion. Personally, I don't know. I have seen your & his posts about Jordan Peterson, but I cannot be sure about his motives.

From my own experience with him, I no longer give Anthony the benefit of the doubt on anything. It's clear that he had a motivation to help some forum members and to hurt others. Even if he had a good motive, I wouldn't believe it because of things he's said and done. 

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I doubt America will fully collapse within my lifetime. The great thing about Democracy is that its inherently evolutionary, you don't need to stage a violent revolution to change things, you just need a majority (Or more, depending on how big the changes you propose are) of people to agree with your vision for the future. Even the bedrock of our government, and political society, the Constitution, has a mechanism for evolution. So long as we remain a democracy, with the ability to evolve our society peacefully, and organically, we should remain a first world nation, even if a continued period of hyper-dominance is a bit of a stretch.

Also, in regards to our, debt, yes, as a raw number, we have way, way, way more debt than anyone else. However, if we look at the debt as a percentage of our GDP, our 102% may look bad at first glance, but when we look at other comparable first, and second world nations, we're doing relatively well. Nobodies banging the drum about the imminent collapse of the British, French, Japanese, or Canadian economies, and societies, and personally, I'd rather live in America, Japan, or England, over China, India, or Russia, despite the fact that the latter three countries have Debt GPD% far better than any 1st world country, with the exception of the Netherlands.

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