President Bracket Game *ROUND 2*

[vcczar]

Second Round - Those that don't get more than 2/3 of the vote will be removed. If all do, then they get kicked out if they lose the poll. 

@Beetlejuice @Cal @Cenzonico @ConservativeElector2 @DakotaHale @Dobs @Fbarbarossa @Hestia @jnewt @Magnus Rex @MrPotatoTed @Pringles @Rezi @Rodja @Sean F Kennedy @The Blood @vcczar @WVProgressive @Zenobiyl

[DakotaHale]

Reagan vs Jefferson was tuff. @Dobs

[Rezi]

John Adams luckiest man alive. First he matches up against Trump and then Wilson, could you get an easier path?

[Pringles]

I had to do a meme vote on Reagan vs Jefferson 😁

[vcczar]

14 minutes ago, Rezi said:

John Adams luckiest man alive. First he matches up against Trump and then Wilson, could you get an easier path?

Yeah, Adams will win out poll, but most "professional" rankers would have Wilson win. He got lucky in that first bracket. As he got 100% of the vote, he faced the weakest person going into the 2nd bracket. He'll face weak competition so long as he outperforms the others.

[pilight]

11 minutes ago, vcczar said:

Yeah, Adams will win out poll, but most "professional" rankers would have Wilson win. He got lucky in that first bracket. As he got 100% of the vote, he faced the weakest person going into the 2nd bracket. He'll face weak competition so long as he outperforms the others.

Racism, warmongering, and sprawling government overreach are popular among historians, I guess.

[DakotaHale]

4 minutes ago, pilight said:

Racism, warmongering, and sprawling government overreach are popular among historians, I guess.

What are you talking about? “He kept us out of war!” Remember?? Lol

[vcczar]

11 minutes ago, pilight said:

Racism, warmongering, and sprawling government overreach are popular among historians, I guess.

I think historians ignore the racism and warmongering, sadly. What you might call government overreach is what they generally consider the precedence for modern governance, which would likely have occurred had Charles Evans Hughes won in 1916, and probably to a lesser degree with Taft had he won reelection in 1912. It would have been much escalated had TR won in 1912. From 1912-1932, the only major politician that probably wouldn't have done what Wilson did (at some level) is Coolidge, but who knows how he would have responded in 1912. Coolidge might have been Coolidge because what Wilson had done was already in place. Wilson also gets credit for bringing back the State of the Union address, and other modernized versions of popular appeal and campaign. 

I don't like Wilson because of his racism or warmongering. I see a lot of his domestic progressive reforms as necessary. Other countries were doing these things. They were wildly popular with both parties at the time. If he didn't do those things, he wouldn't have been reelected. 

If I ranked presidents by Foreign Affairs, Domestic Affairs, Civil Rights, Economy, Militarism, Integrity, Appointments, Appeal for his own time, impact on the future, (and I could keep adding categories), I'd give him a B, A, F, C, D, D, B, B, A. Basically, a very conflicting person to analyze from my perspective. I think he's definitely one of the most overrated presidents, but I'd put him about in the middle of the pack, even if I personally dislike him enough to move him further down the list.

[pilight]

Problem is that historians consider those to be good things.  Wilson ending America's tradition of neutrality has been the major driver of worldwide strife for more than a century now.  The income tax was one of the first steps towards the highly stratified society we have today.  The modern versions of popular appeal and campaign have led to historic levels of mistrust in the government.  Wilson fundamentally changed US governance for the worse.

I would vote for any president, even Trump, over Wilson.  

[vcczar]

10 minutes ago, pilight said:

The income tax was one of the first steps towards the highly stratified society we have today.

Taft should get more of the blame  or credit for this than Wilson. Same with the Federal Reserve Bank. Taft proposed income tax and championed it. He expected to sign it on reelection. Wilson basically just signed it but had no role in creating it. It's similar to how people give Clinton credit for NAFTA when it was GHW Bush that did all the work for it. 

[vcczar]

13 minutes ago, pilight said:

I would vote for any president, even Trump, over Wilson.  

I think the only president's I'd choose Trump over are Coolidge, Cleveland, Buchanan, Pierce, Tyler, and maybe Van Buren. These are all presidents that are ideologically puritan and would have done nothing for the people during Covid, Katrina, Great Recession, Great Depression, etc. To Trump's credit, he has a little bit of malleability in a crisis. Coolidge and Cleveland are only "successful" presidents because they didn't face a crisis. They'd be Buchanans otherwise.