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Forum Presidential Ranking 2024: Part 4


vcczar

Forum Presidential Ranking 2024: Part 4  

21 members have voted

  1. 1. Which of the Following Presidents are A-grade presidents [Mount Rushmore great]

    • Hoover
      0
    • Coolidge
    • Harding
      0
    • Wilson
      0
    • Taft
      0
    • None of the above
  2. 2. Which of the Following Presidents are B-grade presidents [Good but not great]

    • Hoover
      0
    • Coolidge
    • Harding
      0
    • Wilson
    • Taft
    • None of the above
  3. 3. Which of the Following Presidents are C-grade presidents [Passable]

  4. 4. Which of the Following Presidents are D-grade presidents [Flawed but not disasterous]

  5. 5. Which of the Following Presidents are F-grade presidents [Disaster--belongs in an Abyss of Rushmore if there was one]



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33 minutes ago, Pringles said:

I almost put Wilson in F, almost. League of Nations advocacy saves him from that.

Yeah, for me League of Nations, safety regulations, his veto of Prohibition, support for women's suffrage, an income tax to allow free trade (basically just shifting revenue collection), and focus on labor are all things that helped Wilson. The thing that almost put him at D or F for me is his racism and Red Scare tactics. I also think going into WWI was unnecessary. I don't like his occupation of the "Banana Republics." I'm okay with the Federal Reserve. I abhor the fact that he hid his stroke from the public. I think he undermined his own mission on the League of Nations by shutting out the US Senate. He was just totally flawed and a mix of great and terrible. 

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35 minutes ago, vcczar said:

Yeah, for me League of Nations, safety regulations, his veto of Prohibition, support for women's suffrage, an income tax to allow free trade (basically just shifting revenue collection), and focus on labor are all things that helped Wilson. The thing that almost put him at D or F for me is his racism and Red Scare tactics. I also think going into WWI was unnecessary. I don't like his occupation of the "Banana Republics." I'm okay with the Federal Reserve. I abhor the fact that he hid his stroke from the public. I think he undermined his own mission on the League of Nations by shutting out the US Senate. He was just totally flawed and a mix of great and terrible. 

Although I don’t agree with everything you mentioned, I forgot to include women’s suffrage in my positive note of him haha. It happens so late into his presidency I nearly forgot. Vetoing prohibition is also a positive for me, back then, wasn’t the prohibition divide almost entirely on ethnic lines? Americans/south and west supported it but immigrant families did not, such as the Irish and Germans, for obvious reasons. 

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27 minutes ago, Pringles said:

wasn’t the prohibition divide almost entirely on ethnic lines?

For the most part Catholics supported alcohol (Communion?). Many Irish and German Catholics supported it. Obviously, industries connected to alcohol supported it.  It might be better to evaluate it on where support for it was strongest. Deep South protestants united with western and northern Progressives, the latter were big on clamping down on vice and all sorts of things this, including (sadly) eugenics. Alcohol was seen by some in these groups as being the equivalent of how we view bath salts today. So basically, we see a time when alcohol was seen as causing immoral behavior on religious and secular grounds, and as being inefficient on scientific grounds. Some progressives thought alcoholics should be sterilized or forbidden to breed.  Alcohol led to to sex outside of wedlock, premarital sex, and that led to STDs and all kinds of things like that. I think for the most part, supporters of prohibition were just louder than anti-prohibition activists, so politicians wanted those loud voters. I think those that opposed Prohibitions just weren't very passionate about opposing it. Propaganda probably played into this as well--along ethnic lines. The Germans were the enemy during WWI, and some might have tied the support of alcohol with support of Germany. In the South, the KKK was nearing its peak in influence--an they were strongly anti-Catholic and probably tied that with prohibition. 

Sorry typing this fast. I'm probably leaving out some important things, but this shoudl get you the gist of what is going on. It is possible if WWI and post-War drama wasn't going on that Prohibition might not have snuck through. My belief is the average American didn't support it or had no real opinion on it. Some may have drank alcohol but thought prohibition might be a way to stop drinking. I think there's probably also a large group of people that thought it would never pass because prohibitionist had been around for ages and nothing federal had happened before. We also have to keep in mind that automobiles are a huge factor in daily lives and in politics for the first time. That probably played a role in more people supporting prohibition. 

More states than not had state-level prohibition already, but these were primarily low population states--OH, MA, and MI are exceptions. I think Anti-Catholic sentiment got it passed in MA and OH, possibly in MI. A lot of these states passed prohibition in 1918. I'd like to know if the horrors of WWI played any role. 

Women supported prohibition more than men did, and were often leaders of Temperance Movements. Who knows if they had an outsized advocacy role as men were fighting in Europe. 

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TBH hating on Wilson is basically a meme too, and the ironic thing is while there's a lot to hate on him for, people generally hate on him for stupid stuff instead of the legitimate stuff (because again, it's meme level commentary from most people).  Pre-stroke he was fairly competent at least so he had some good stuff as well, wasn't sure if C or D but I'm feeling charitable today.

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The Taft disrespect is real. How could you give such a low rating to a man with this much drip? Let it be known that this is the ideal male form, beta Taft haters.

image.png.a9e436b17c678d14c93f6cc13be1bf95.png

 

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22 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

TBH hating on Wilson is basically a meme too, and the ironic thing is while there's a lot to hate on him for, people generally hate on him for stupid stuff instead of the legitimate stuff (because again, it's meme level commentary from most people).  Pre-stroke he was fairly competent at least so he had some good stuff as well, wasn't sure if C or D but I'm feeling charitable today.

Edith Wilson was the worst President we ever had, shortly followed by her husband.

 

In all seriousness, I despise Wilson because of his foreign policy legacy. His Confederate sympathies and racism is just icing on the cake. That being said, we can only speculate what Justice Hughes would have done if he beat Wilson in 1916. 

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2 minutes ago, Pius XIII said:

Edith Wilson was the worst President we ever had, shortly followed by her husband.

 

In all seriousness, I despise Wilson because of his foreign policy legacy. His Confederate sympathies and racism is just icing on the cake. That being said, we can only speculate what Justice Hughes would have done if he beat Wilson in 1916. 

I'm referring more to things like people getting upset about him watching a racist movie than doing things like, you know, re-segregating the post office.

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One more attempt to get to 20 votes here. I think we need 3. We easily got to 20 votes on the other polls, so I don't know what the barrier is here. I just need consistent votes to do this ranking. In fact, when I have time--who knows then that will be--I'll go in and tag everyone who voted in one poll and skipped another, or I'll just throw out all the votes of people that didn't vote for everyone. 

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36 minutes ago, vcczar said:

One more attempt to get to 20 votes here. I think we need 3. We easily got to 20 votes on the other polls, so I don't know what the barrier is here. I just need consistent votes to do this ranking. In fact, when I have time--who knows then that will be--I'll go in and tag everyone who voted in one poll and skipped another, or I'll just throw out all the votes of people that didn't vote for everyone. 

Took me less than 5 minutes, but I figured out who voted in the other polls and didn't here.

@Willthescout7 @Joe303300 @DakotaHale @Imperator Taco Cat@themiddlepolitical @Edouard @matthewyoung123

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