Timur Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 https://thehill.com/homenews/house/566435-liz-cheney-says-her-father-is-deeply-troubled-about-the-status-of-the 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvikings1 Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 Good. The Cheneys are worried about losing their power and influence. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPotatoTed Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 44 minutes ago, jvikings1 said: Good. The Cheneys are worried about losing their power and influence. I mean, he's 80 years old with a major heart condition, I hardly expect that he thinks he'll be retaining power and influence for much longer. And it's not like 2008 McCain or 2012 Romney came to kiss his ring, much less 2016 or 2020 Trump. He hasn't had power or influence since Jan 20, 2009. Could it be he's sincerely worried that the party has completely abandoned its soul and no longer stands for anything at all except stroking Trump's ego? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvikings1 Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 Just now, MrPotatoTed said: I mean, he's 80 years old with a major heart condition, I hardly expect that he thinks he'll be retaining power and influence for much longer. And it's not like 2008 McCain or 2012 Romney came to kiss his ring, much less 2016 or 2020 Trump. He hasn't had power or influence since Jan 20, 2009. Could it be he's sincerely worried that the party has completely abandoned its soul and no longer stands for anything at all except stroking Trump's ego? Republican leadership really didn't stand for much before Trump either (and the same Establishment still remains even after Trump because he didn't really follow through on his drain the swamp message unless it was someone who went after him). 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted August 5, 2021 Author Share Posted August 5, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 (edited) On 8/4/2021 at 9:22 PM, jvikings1 said: Good. The Cheneys are worried about losing their power and influence. What power and influence? You Trumpists and enlightened "Libertarians" are the ones who have shoved these "OpPreSsoRs" and "poWeR hunGrY" people down the drain. In fact, this takeover of the crazies in the GOP is something you can trace back to Barry Goldwater. I say this as a Southern Baptist, and God forgive me if I'm wrong. But I know your side sure as hell ain't right. Cheney, and even Bush, along with all of the other great Republicans never took it that far. I admire people who ignore the culture war, and can actually be accepting of ALL people... afterall, one of Cheney's daughters is a lesbian. Edited March 12 by Pringles 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodja Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 While i agree with what he said,Dick Cheney doesnt have a right to be worried about anything.He is the one who pushed our country in war on fictional reasons and i really dont want to hear what he has to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPotatoTed Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 5 hours ago, Rodja said: While i agree with what he said,Dick Cheney doesnt have a right to be worried about anything.He is the one who pushed our country in war on fictional reasons and i really dont want to hear what he has to say. I welcome anyone to the table who sees the dire situation we find ourselves in, even when they show up late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvikings1 Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 8 hours ago, Pringles said: What power and influence? You Trumpists and enlightened "Libertarians" are the ones who have shoved these "OpPreSsoRs" and "poWeR hunGrY" people down the drain. In fact, this takeover of the crazies in the GOP is something you can trace back to Barry Goldwater. Christians letting their authoritative tendencies get the better of them to the point they create this false sense of a culture war. I say this as a Southern Baptist, and God forgive me if I'm wrong. But I know your side sure as hell ain't right. Cheney, and even Bush, along with all of the other great Republicans never took it that far. I admire people who ignore the culture war, and can actually be accepting of ALL people... afterall, one of Cheney's daughters is a lesbian. For one, libertarians don’t have control of power in the Republican Party. Sure, we have gained more influence over the years, but that’s far from controlling what actually happens. But when big government warmongers like the Cheneys lose their foothold on power, I am all far it! Also, I hope you realize that liberty Republicans (as in Rand Paul and Thomas Massie) believe in accepting all walks of life into the movement. They seek to provide freedom from coercion for all people (even if there are disagreements about one’s private life). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 Dick Cheney is in my top 10 worst politicians of significant influence in my lifetime, but he and his daughter are on the right side of history in regards to their anti-Trump positions. Just because I dislike a person, I'm not going to attack them or ignore what they say when they actually do or say the right things for once or twice in their life. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 (edited) - Edited March 12 by Pringles 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPotatoTed Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 4 hours ago, jvikings1 said: For one, libertarians don’t have control of power in the Republican Party. Sure, we have gained more influence over the years, but that’s far from controlling what actually happens. But when big government warmongers like the Cheneys lose their foothold on power, I am all far it! Also, I hope you realize that liberty Republicans (as in Rand Paul and Thomas Massie) believe in accepting all walks of life into the movement. They seek to provide freedom from coercion for all people (even if there are disagreements about one’s private life). They also believe in no protections for any walk of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvikings1 Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Patine said: Did you just say that Trumpists and Libertarians were conducting politics as, "Christians," and applying, "Christian," values to policy? As a Christian myself, I'm a bit taken aback, and as declaring you're one, too, you should pray for repentance for your act of blasphemy tonight. There is absolutely no Christ-like behaviour in either movement. Ayn Rand called all religions, "death cults," and said altruism - one of the pillars of Christian conduct - was, "one of the greatest evils of society." Donald Trump is the most amoral and irreligious person to ever be U.S. President, of any party, in any time period. If Pence ever had true Christian values (his un-Christ-like, "business values conscience bill in Indiana makes me dubious of that), he sold them out in a Faustian bargain to be the pied-piper to get Evangelicals to vote for a highly morally repugnant man like Trump as opposed to Clinton, who was so Centrist, and only giving the limpest lip service to Progressive ideals, she may not have been a hard sell otherwise as an alternative. As I stated (and you inexplicably laughed at) on the Nina Turner thread, disingenuous, manipulative, and false self-labelling in politics IS a thing - a BIG thing - and should not be taken with a very wary eye. You realize that Ayn Rand is simply one person who identified with the movement. There are many dedicated practicing Christians who subscribe to a more libertarian governing philosophy while still having a strong Biblical foundation. I am not a fan of a lot of Ayn Rand's stuff (such as the Virtue of Selfishness) because I am in the later category myself. There are many libertarians (they tend to be concentrated within the Libertarian Party) who I do not associate as a result of their hostility towards religion (and specifically Christianity). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvikings1 Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 38 minutes ago, MrPotatoTed said: They also believe in no protections for any walk of life. In a perfect world (one would call a utopia), yes. Though that is not the case in practical governing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvikings1 Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Patine said: There is absolutely in Biblical Scriptural foundation that supports Libertarian ideology. A lot of it is at antithetical ends of viewpoint, in fact. You seem caught up in the ignorant notation that if the government does not supply some goods, then no one can. One can support the poor (through ACTUAL generosity) without being forced to do so by some government force (not generosity). One can live up to the Christian duty to take care of the poor while believing in limited government. This is just one example of compatibility that I assume you would challenge. You seem to have this dangerous notion that someone cannot actually be a Christian if they subscribe to a philosophy that you have an extreme negative opinion of. Sure, there might be some specific issues that would cause one to question someone's commitment (such as supporting murder, which dare I say includes abortion). But, those are specific ones that can be directly pointed to in scripture. Edited August 6, 2021 by jvikings1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvikings1 Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 6 hours ago, Patine said: But should the Government, representing al of it's people, be disempowered so greatly from aiding all of people, and not just the prosperous and property by act of lassaiz-faire, and the downtrodden be reduced to the random vagaries of private charity alone. And, I have never said I SUPPORTED abortion. I just believe - as a social worker, in fact, a profession of dubious relevance under a Libertarian system - that underlying social and economic reasons for such high abortion rates must be dealt with, and that draconian laws to jail or execute every mother and doctor who engages in it like a sledge hammer policy do not at all help, and only grievously harm, such a process. And, that dealing with such social and economic issues meaningfully is not a forte of Libertarian Governance, anyways. Sure, you can make that argument politically, but that does not mean that those who disagree with your position cannot be strong practicing Christians. I never said you specifically did support it. I was pointing out one key issue that is clearly addressed in the Bible (which would bring questions about one's faith if they did support it as a policy). There are others as well, but that was the easiest to point out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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