Timur Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 Richard Nixon John Ashbrook Pete McCloskey George McGovern Hubert Humphrey George Wallace Edmund Muskie Eugene McCarthy Scoop Jackson Shirley Chishlom Terry Sanford John Lindsay Wilbur Mills Vance Hartke Fred Harris Sam Yorty Patsy Mink Walter Fauntroy John G. Schmitz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 17 hours ago, Timur said: Richard Nixon John Ashbrook Pete McCloskey George McGovern Hubert Humphrey George Wallace Edmund Muskie Eugene McCarthy Scoop Jackson Shirley Chishlom Terry Sanford John Lindsay Wilbur Mills Vance Hartke Fred Harris Sam Yorty Patsy Mink Walter Fauntroy John G. Schmitz Too many names McGovern or McCarthy best. Wallace worst. I want to put McCarthy best but he voted Reagan over Carter despite being rather progressive. He did it as a kind of spite vote against Carter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobs Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 John Ashbrook Sam Yorty Scoop Jackson --- Approval Line --- Richard Nixon Wilbur Mills George Wallace Terry Sanford Hubert Humphrey Vance Hartke Fred Harris Edmund Muskie Patsy Mink Eugene McCarthy Walter Fauntroy Shirley Chisholm John Lindsay Pete McCloskey George McGovern --- Bad Person Line --- John G. Schmitz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobs Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, Patine said: Schmidt and Wallace are disturbingly high on that list. Wallace had begun to moderate by 1972 and Schmitz is below even some liberals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobs Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, Patine said: Schmidt is still very high for his repugnant ideology and platform. This is a bad line-up. Oh damn I forgot to add my lines, hold up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 (edited) Richard Nixon ---Absolute Approval--- Scoop Jackson Wilbur Mills John Ashbrook Terry Sanford Hubert Humphrey ---Slight Approval--- Vance Hartke Fred Harris Edmund Muskie Sam Yorty Eugene McCarthy Walter Fauntroy Patsy Mink Shirley Chisholm John Lindsay ---Absolutely shit because of Ideas. Would never vote. But decent persons.--- Pete McCloskey George McGovern ---Absolutely Not Line--- George Wallace John Schmitz Edited August 12, 2021 by Pringles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVProgressive Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 George McGovern Eugene McCarthy Shirley Chishlom Hubert Humphrey Terry Sanford John Lindsay Pete McCloskey Edmund Muskie Walter Fauntroy Wilbur Mills Fred Harris Patsy Mink Scoop Jackson Vance Hartke Richard Nixon John Ashbrook Sam Yorty George Wallace John G. Schmitz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Dobs said: Wallace had begun to moderate by 1972 and Schmitz is below even some liberals. "When a person tells you who they are - believe them the first time" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobs Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, Hestia said: "When a person tells you who they are - believe them the first time" By this line of logic, you'd have Wallace as the poster child of the NAACP that he was during his 1958 run for Governor of Alabama. Politicians change, Wallace's political journey in particular is one of the most well-documented and fascinating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Dobs said: By this line of logic, you'd have Wallace as the poster child of the NAACP that he was during his 1958 run for Governor of Alabama. Politicians change, Wallace's political journey in particular is one of the most well-documented and fascinating. The quote was just a fun one (and a favorite 😛 ) by Maya Angelou. 1972 Wallace was not a changed man, by any measure. Certainly not one that should be ranked above politicians like Humphrey, especially as someone who just attacked CE2 the other day for ranking something similar. In 1963, he made a letter that said blacks were predisposed to criminality like rape and murder. That's only 9 years before this. That same year he made his "segregation forever" speech. In 1965, his wife found out that she had cancer and her husband hadn't told her 3 years earlier when he had learned, which prevented her from getting appropriate care. That was 7 years before 1972. In 1967 when he began his campaign, he met with prominent Anti-Semites and white supremacists to chart his campaign. 5 years before 1972. He ran in 1968 with the backing of White Citizen's Councils and organizations permeated by Nazis. Only 4 years before 1972. In 1970, he opposed the sitting governor with ads that said, "do you want your governor elected by the black bloc?". That was 2 years before 1972. He himself "announced" in 1972 that he no longer supported segregation and had always been a "moderate" on racial issues. His actions speak otherwise. By 1979 or 1983, you could argue he had changed. In 1972, there was little evidence to suggest that he had wholeheartedly changed tack. 10 minutes ago, Patine said: And Josef Stalin would have to be believed that he had a Spiritual Calling and wanted to be a Priest in the Georgian Orthodox Church and devote his life to Charity, Service, and Good works. Though I agree with the point you're making, @Hestia, the quote used as a vehicle for it might not be optimal... A quote is just a quote and a bit of fun. Thanks for the advice, though. Edited August 12, 2021 by Hestia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobs Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, Hestia said: He himself "announced" in 1972 that he no longer supported segregation and had always been a "moderate" on racial issues. His actions speak otherwise. By 1979 or 1983, you could argue he had changed. In 1972, there was little evidence to suggest that he had wholeheartedly changed tack. 14 minutes ago, Patine said: His actions pre-1972? Yes, they do. But after his rebirth in Christ and his crippling at the hands of his would-be assassin, I legitimately believe that his life and death situation and how that brought him to Christ made him realize that all of the racist lies (which he knew were lies) that he told to gain power were not worth his soul. And in doing that he reverted to the beliefs he initially esposed as a judge and in his 1958 run. Like you said, when someone tells you who they are the first time, believe them. George Wallace is a deeply flawed human and he hurt many people. I don't support him and would not campaign actively for him. But I believe that his later actions redeemed himself and that more importantly he was truly penitent for his many sins. That's enough to rehabilitate his ranking as compared to 1964 and 1968 for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Dobs said: His actions pre-1972? Yes, they do. But after his rebirth in Christ and his crippling at the hands of his would-be assassin, I legitimately believe that his life and death situation and how that brought him to Christ made him realize that all of the racist lies (which he knew were lies) that he told to gain power were not worth his soul. And in doing that he reverted to the beliefs he initially esposed as a judge and in his 1958 run. Like you said, when someone tells you who they are the first time, believe them. George Wallace is a deeply flawed human and he hurt many people. I don't support him and would not campaign actively for him. But I believe that his later actions redeemed himself and that more importantly he was truly penitent for his many sins. That's enough to rehabilitate his ranking as compared to 1964 and 1968 for me. I don't believe he fundamentally changed in 1972. I think it's naïve to think that he did. He said and did despicable things against a community, on par with some of the worst people on these lists only a handful of years before this. People don't change that fast. Like I said, by 1979 or 1983, I think you could make the argument he had truly changed. In 1972, that is an abrupt turnaround that I don't buy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 George Wallace is of a similar breed that created America First Populism. Sure, he changed by the 80s in his final term as Governor. Even won most African Americans. That does not justify his previous actions for me and he is still, without a doubt, one of the worst influences weve had in American society. I cant understand a rank of his higher than the bottom. And he would've made a terrible President. No true conservative could support him or think remotely high of him. The same goes for Trump, and other populist influences throughout society. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobs Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 7 minutes ago, Pringles said: George Wallace is of a similar breed that created America First Populism. Sure, he changed by the 80s in his final term as Governor. Even won most African Americans. That does not justify his previous actions for me and he is still, without a doubt, one of the worst influences weve had in American society. I cant understand a rank of his higher than the bottom. And he would've made a terrible President. No true conservative could support him or think remotely high of him. The same goes for Trump, and other populist influences throughout society. I agree with all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted August 12, 2021 Author Share Posted August 12, 2021 I think Wallace was a flip-flopper & an opportunist. It is questionable how much of his racism was sincere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Patine said: Notably, a quote conspicuous by it's absence of poignant quotes by Canadian PM's on the loading screen of Anthony's PM4E and PMI, Canadian Edition. Maybe Anthony shouldve adhered to his own game advice better edit: my bad. Thought you said it was in the game. Now I wonder why... *cough* 😛 Edited August 12, 2021 by Pringles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, Timur said: I think Wallace was a flip-flopper & an opportunist. It is questionable how much of his racism was sincere... Even though most politicians are... in some ways at least. Wallace had a cult like following that would follow him to the depths of hell. Had he ever gotten near the WH or started claiming it was rigged, I wouldnt be surprised if a Jan 6 like event would have happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 11 minutes ago, Timur said: I think Wallace was a flip-flopper & an opportunist. It is questionable how much of his racism was sincere... He was. Regardless of how sincere his racism is, it was poisonous and hurt quite a few (millions) of people. Not caring about using racism to win office and hurt those exact people, is racist in its own way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted August 12, 2021 Author Share Posted August 12, 2021 I UNDERSTOOD HIS SITUATION. HE WAS IN ALABAMA AND HAD AN ELECTORATE THAT WAS MUCH MORE SEGREGATED THAN WE HAD IN VIRGINIA. HE COULD NOT HAVE DONE WHAT I DID AND I UNDERSTOOD THAT BUT I RECOGNIZED THAT HE WAS WRONG BUT THAT HE COULD NOT HELP IT. WE GOT ALONG FINE. - Linwood Holton 1 minute ago, Pringles said: Even though most politicians are... in some ways at least. Wallace had a cult like following that would follow him to the depths of hell. Had he ever gotten near the WH or started claiming it was rigged, I wouldnt be surprised if a Jan 6 like event would have happened. He certainly has been compared to Trump by John Lewis and Barack Obama. However, George Wallace's daughter sees Trump as worse... https://www.newsweek.com/daughter-racist-george-wallace-trump-worse-father-1451949 I pretty much have mixed views on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted August 12, 2021 Author Share Posted August 12, 2021 On 8/11/2021 at 12:17 PM, Timur said: Richard Nixon John Ashbrook Pete McCloskey George McGovern Hubert Humphrey George Wallace Edmund Muskie Eugene McCarthy Scoop Jackson Shirley Chishlom Terry Sanford John Lindsay Wilbur Mills Vance Hartke Fred Harris Sam Yorty Patsy Mink Walter Fauntroy John G. Schmitz Hubert Humphrey Eugene McCarthy Walter Fauntroy Edmund Muskie Scoop Jackson Richard Nixon George McGovern Patsy Mink Shirley Chishlom John Lindsay Wilbur Mills John Ashbrook Fred Harris George Wallace Vance Hartke Pete McCloskey Sam Yorty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 21 minutes ago, Timur said: Hubert Humphrey Eugene McCarthy Walter Fauntroy Edmund Muskie Scoop Jackson Richard Nixon George McGovern Patsy Mink Shirley Chishlom John Lindsay Wilbur Mills John Ashbrook Fred Harris George Wallace Vance Hartke Pete McCloskey Sam Yorty For a Republican you rank Hubert pretty high and not Nixon. Unless I'm mistaken on you. Tbf, I like Hubert as a person, and hes got some pretty good foreign policy views. Besides Scoop I think I had him on the higher end of my ranking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted August 12, 2021 Author Share Posted August 12, 2021 Just now, Pringles said: For a Republican you rank Hubert pretty high and not Nixon. Unless I'm mistaken on you. Tbf, I like Hubert as a person, and hes got some pretty good foreign policy views. Besides Scoop I think I had him on the higher end of my ranking. My views are all over the place... I tend to prefer Republicans because of pro-life views & foreign policy (though thanks to Trump, I'm not so favorable...) I think I would have been more supportive of the liberals if I was in the 1970s. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted August 12, 2021 Author Share Posted August 12, 2021 Just now, Timur said: My views are all over the place... I tend to prefer Republicans because of pro-life views & foreign policy (though thanks to Trump, I'm not so favorable...) I think I would have been more supportive of the liberals if I was in the 1970s. Also, Nixon was moderate on Abortion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 16 minutes ago, Timur said: My views are all over the place... I tend to prefer Republicans because of pro-life views & foreign policy (though thanks to Trump, I'm not so favorable...) I think I would have been more supportive of the liberals if I was in the 1970s. So you're an old liberal! I respect it. Socially Conservative economically moderate sounds like your thing. Hubert was a good man, I got big respect for him. Him and Nixon, despite all the political plays against each other, with LBJ in the middle of it all... they were quite good friends. Talked regularly. There's a phone call between them on YT where Hubert congratulates his 72 victory. And even talks a bit of smack about McGovern himself, saying he "had to do what he had to do." On Huberts endorsement of McGovern... But yeah, big respect for Hubert. He lost, but he played to win. 🙂 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fbarbarossa Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 On 8/12/2021 at 5:26 AM, Pringles said: There's a phone call between them on YT where Hubert congratulates his 72 victory. And even talks a bit of smack about McGovern himself, saying he "had to do what he had to do." On Huberts endorsement of McGovern... I like the Hump but that does lower my opinion slightly On the subject of friendships it Humphrey seems like quite the friendly guy. LBJ and RFK hated each other but apparently HHH and RFK were good friends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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