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Nurses put to the brink


Hestia
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  • Hestia changed the title to Nurses put to the brink

I'm a bit more cognizant of the topic than I would be normally - my mother and my aunt both work as nurses at hospitals in the area. COVID has stretched doctors far, but has pushed already burdened nurses to the brink. With the coming storms, the nation owes them a tremendous debt of gratitude for what they have already endured - and pray that after all that's happened, they can make it through the next one. This is the cost that people talk too infrequently about.

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22 minutes ago, Hestia said:

I'm a bit more cognizant of the topic than I would be normally - my mother and my aunt both work as nurses at hospitals in the area. COVID has stretched doctors far, but has pushed already burdened nurses to the brink. With the coming storms, the nation owes them a tremendous debt of gratitude for what they have already endured - and pray that after all that's happened, they can make it through the next one. This is the cost that people talk too infrequently about.

Yeah, I’m married to a nurse.  She’s fine because she only works part time and as a home hospice nurse only rarely deals with covid patients, but like 75% of the supervision team have all resigned.  Seems like in most cases, they found better paying nursing jobs elsewhere, as nursing is at a premium now.

I’m the spokesman for a hospital, and just learned in a meeting Thursday that we’ve lost 92 nurses since covid began, to resignation and retirement, almost all of whom attributed their departure to burnout.

We’re working to replace them, but that’s a LOT of nurses.  I don’t know how many we started with, but there’s only 2,200 employees total.

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1 minute ago, jvikings1 said:

Doesn't help with staff shortages when you have hospitals laying off people for making their own healthcare decisions

Healthcare decisions that ignore science and put their patients at risk.

My daughter was recently exposed to covid, so I had to take her to be tested at the children’s hospital.

Staff were protesting the staff vaccine mandate outside.

But it’s a children’s hospital.  By DEFINITION, nearly every single patient is ineligible to get the vaccine themselves and many are immunocompromised.

If you’re so fucking soulless that you just don’t care about whether you spread covid to immunocomprized children, please stop working at a children’s hospital immediately.

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3 minutes ago, MrPotatoTed said:

Yeah, I’m married to a nurse.  She’s fine because she only works part time and as a home hospice nurse only rarely deals with covid patients, but like 75% of the supervision team have all resigned.  Seems like in most cases, they found better paying nursing jobs elsewhere, as nursing is at a premium now.

I’m the spokesman for a hospital, and just learned in a meeting Thursday that we’ve lost 92 nurses since covid began, to resignation and retirement, almost all of whom attributed their departure to burnout.

We’re working to replace them, but that’s a LOT of nurses.  I don’t know how many we started with, but there’s only 2,200 employees total.

My aunt works in mental health, and its been simply overwhelming for her. She works with nurses in the hospital who need help. It's insane.

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On 8/21/2021 at 12:48 PM, Hestia said:

Hasn't been a problem around here from what I've seen. It's the workload.

Maybe not around there specifically, but other places have been experiencing shortages after letting go of staff due to mandates.

 

On 8/21/2021 at 12:48 PM, MrPotatoTed said:

Healthcare decisions that ignore science and put their patients at risk.

My daughter was recently exposed to covid, so I had to take her to be tested at the children’s hospital.

Staff were protesting the staff vaccine mandate outside.

But it’s a children’s hospital.  By DEFINITION, nearly every single patient is ineligible to get the vaccine themselves and many are immunocompromised.

If you’re so fucking soulless that you just don’t care about whether you spread covid to immunocomprized children, please stop working at a children’s hospital immediately.

For one, the science is far from settled, especially for these shots (and on the virus in general). For two, not putting an experimental product in your body does not mean you want to spread COVID. Their personal healthcare decision does not indicate where their heart lies. For three, children are at an extremely low risk, so their eligibility for the shot is not a major concern for most.

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16 minutes ago, jvikings1 said:

Maybe not around there specifically, but other places have been experiencing shortages after letting go of staff due to mandates.

 

For one, the science is far from settled, especially for these shots (and on the virus in general). For two, not putting an experimental product in your body does not mean you want to spread COVID. Their personal healthcare decision does not indicate where their heart lies. For three, children are at an extremely low risk, so their eligibility for the shot is not a major concern for most.

I’m a father of a child under the age of 12, during a time when entire schools are getting shut down due to covid outbreaks among the students. Let me assure you their eligibility is a major concern.

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11 hours ago, MrPotatoTed said:

I’m a father of a child under the age of 12, during a time when entire schools are getting shut down due to covid outbreaks among the students. Let me assure you their eligibility is a major concern.

You are free to reach however you wish. But it’s funny how you try to play the science card and then refuse to look at the data as it relates to school aged children.

The new rush to close schools is ridiculous, especially since the shots don’t stop people from being able to get/spread the virus.

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1 hour ago, jvikings1 said:

You are free to reach however you wish. But it’s funny how you try to play the science card and then refuse to look at the data as it relates to school aged children.

The new rush to close schools is ridiculous, especially since the shots don’t stop people from being able to get/spread the virus.

Wall Street Journal just had an excellent article detailing the huge increase in children being hospitalized with covid, but it’s behind a paywall, so let me offer this one instead.

Delta is much more contagious and seems to have a significant amount of additional morbidity in children. With delta, the response of unvaccinated children is reminiscent of the response adults had to the first variety."

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2021/08/22/cincinnati-pediatricians-answer-questions-children-delta-variant/8208494002/

But you've also lost sight of the original discussion, which was about requiring vaccines of staff at children's hospitals.  By definition, their patients are the most at risk between not being eligible for the vaccine and many of them being immunocompromised, and for someone to actually work at a children's hospital and not understand that...they're just not good at their job then, and we're better off without them.

 

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6 hours ago, MrPotatoTed said:

Wall Street Journal just had an excellent article detailing the huge increase in children being hospitalized with covid, but it’s behind a paywall, so let me offer this one instead.

Delta is much more contagious and seems to have a significant amount of additional morbidity in children. With delta, the response of unvaccinated children is reminiscent of the response adults had to the first variety."

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2021/08/22/cincinnati-pediatricians-answer-questions-children-delta-variant/8208494002/

But you've also lost sight of the original discussion, which was about requiring vaccines of staff at children's hospitals.  By definition, their patients are the most at risk between not being eligible for the vaccine and many of them being immunocompromised, and for someone to actually work at a children's hospital and not understand that...they're just not good at their job then, and we're better off without them.

 

To add on, a school district now where my hometown is delayed school starting a week because of the amount of COVID cases there. First day back.

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9 hours ago, MrPotatoTed said:

But you've also lost sight of the original discussion, which was about requiring vaccines of staff at children's hospitals.  By definition, their patients are the most at risk between not being eligible for the vaccine and many of them being immunocompromised, and for someone to actually work at a children's hospital and not understand that...they're just not good at their job then, and we're better off without them.

Considering people who take the shot can still spread the virus, all people can still spread it to those populations.

A person's medical decisions don't effect the quality of the job they can do. Someone who does the best job but hasn't taken an experimental shot (who's manufacturers cannot be held liable for damages) is more valuable than someone who is just average and has taken it.

But it comes down to this, forcing someone to put a needle filled with a foreign substance into their body against their will is violence. Using that as a threat for someone not doing what you want them to do is participating in violence. It doesn't matter which profession someone is in, they do not deserve to be threatened, especially over their own medical decisions.

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1 minute ago, jvikings1 said:

A person's medical decisions don't effect the quality of the job they can do. Someone who does the best job but hasn't taken an experimental shot (who's manufacturers cannot be held liable for damages) is more valuable than someone who is just average and has taken it.

 

Pfizer is no longer experimental as it has been finalized by the FDA. I won't even get into the laughable "violence" claims. No one's going up and stabbing people with needles 😄 They have another choice which you aren't mentioning - leave the profession. If they don't want to, they can walk right out the door. It's the same with schools and getting the MMR vaccine or any other vaccine you have to get to attend elementary. Don't want to get them? Fine, go ahead and home school or find a private school that doesn't require those shots. It's not threatening, even. It's a notice of a change in policy - if you aren't abiding by company policy, you lose your job. That's how the real world works. 

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7 minutes ago, jvikings1 said:

Considering people who take the shot can still spread the virus, all people can still spread it to those populations.

A person's medical decisions don't effect the quality of the job they can do. Someone who does the best job but hasn't taken an experimental shot (who's manufacturers cannot be held liable for damages) is more valuable than someone who is just average and has taken it.

But it comes down to this, forcing someone to put a needle filled with a foreign substance into their body against their will is violence. Using that as a threat for someone not doing what you want them to do is participating in violence. It doesn't matter which profession someone is in, they do not deserve to be threatened, especially over their own medical decisions.

"Can" spread the virus is extremely different from "very likely to" spread the virus.  I got COVID after I got the first shot...just the first shot...and my wife and daughter didn't get it at all despite being with me the whole time I had it.  Why?  Because the vaccine DOES significantly decrease the likelihood of spreading the disease.  I don't understand what you thought the point of the vaccine was, if you didn't know that.  No wonder you're against it, I guess.

The rest is just crazy.  Of COURSE you can require people to do things as part of their job.  When I joined the military, I received like 30 shots in a single day in boot camp, all vaccines.  What was I being vaccinated against?  I don't even know.  But if I didn't do it, I wouldn't get to keep my job.  Hell, most hospitals mandate the flu vaccine for staff now (as does the military).  

If I bring my immunocompromised child to the hospital to help heal her, and instead you make her more sick, you ARE doing a terrible job.  Possibly even a fatal one.

I'm sorry you have some idealistic view of this that makes no sense at all, and that leaves you feeling upset or whatever, but nobody cares.  Children's lives are in danger.

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1 minute ago, MrPotatoTed said:

Hell, most hospitals mandate the flu vaccine for staff now (as does the military).  

Didn't know that actually. Interesting. I usually get a flu shot (and do more regularly now that I tolerate shots better 😄), so good to know. 

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4 hours ago, jvikings1 said:

Considering people who take the shot can still spread the virus, all people can still spread it to those populations.

A person's medical decisions don't effect the quality of the job they can do. Someone who does the best job but hasn't taken an experimental shot (who's manufacturers cannot be held liable for damages) is more valuable than someone who is just average and has taken it.

But it comes down to this, forcing someone to put a needle filled with a foreign substance into their body against their will is violence. Using that as a threat for someone not doing what you want them to do is participating in violence. It doesn't matter which profession someone is in, they do not deserve to be threatened, especially over their own medical decisions.

You care more about you’re damned freedoms than you he lives of children. Talk again once there’s someone you’ve made in danger. Such decisions remind me of the other person I know who made a child. As a wise man once said:

you remind me of my ex-wife in a bikini, because you disgust me! - Donald Trump.

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On 8/23/2021 at 8:26 PM, Hestia said:

Pfizer is no longer experimental as it has been finalized by the FDA. I won't even get into the laughable "violence" claims. No one's going up and stabbing people with needles 😄 They have another choice which you aren't mentioning - leave the profession. If they don't want to, they can walk right out the door. It's the same with schools and getting the MMR vaccine or any other vaccine you have to get to attend elementary. Don't want to get them? Fine, go ahead and home school or find a private school that doesn't require those shots. It's not threatening, even. It's a notice of a change in policy - if you aren't abiding by company policy, you lose your job. That's how the real world works. 

FDA (ie government bureaucrat) approval does not mean it is not experimental. The product is still under a year old and used new technology. Therefore, long term side effects are completely unknown.

Now let's apply your very bad logic to other things. Harassment: Just get another job if you don't like what your boss is doing. Nothing is stopping you from leaving because your boss mistreats you. Oh, the company policy is you get fired if you speak out about the mistreatment? Then you better not speak out if you don't want to get fired.

On 8/23/2021 at 8:34 PM, MrPotatoTed said:

"Can" spread the virus is extremely different from "very likely to" spread the virus.  I got COVID after I got the first shot...just the first shot...and my wife and daughter didn't get it at all despite being with me the whole time I had it.  Why?  Because the vaccine DOES significantly decrease the likelihood of spreading the disease.  I don't understand what you thought the point of the vaccine was, if you didn't know that.  No wonder you're against it, I guess.

The rest is just crazy.  Of COURSE you can require people to do things as part of their job.  When I joined the military, I received like 30 shots in a single day in boot camp, all vaccines.  What was I being vaccinated against?  I don't even know.  But if I didn't do it, I wouldn't get to keep my job.  Hell, most hospitals mandate the flu vaccine for staff now (as does the military).  

If I bring my immunocompromised child to the hospital to help heal her, and instead you make her more sick, you ARE doing a terrible job.  Possibly even a fatal one.

I'm sorry you have some idealistic view of this that makes no sense at all, and that leaves you feeling upset or whatever, but nobody cares.  Children's lives are in danger.

And people used to be able to own slaves. They also used to be able to segregating people based on race. Just because something can be done does not mean it is a good thing (or that it should be that way).

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On 8/24/2021 at 12:28 AM, Eugene said:

You care more about you’re damned freedoms than you he lives of children. Talk again once there’s someone you’ve made in danger. Such decisions remind me of the other person I know who made a child. As a wise man once said:

you remind me of my ex-wife in a bikini, because you disgust me! - Donald Trump.

I care about the freedom from violence and coercion. Feel free to support those things if you'd like. But it isn't me who is in favor of the mistreatment of others.

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