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Forum US SENATE Vote (1st bill of 2001-2003 session)


vcczar
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Bush Tax Cuts Bill  

18 members have voted

  1. 1. Did you sign up to play the Forum Senate Game?

    • Yes, I'm one of the 20 that signed up. [You can proceed to the next two questions.
    • No, but I'd like to join. [Don't vote on this bill. Wait until the next bill. I'll contact you before hand]
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    • No, and I don't want to play. [Don't fill out this poll, please]
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  2. 2. Did you read my first post before voting?

    • Yes [I strongly urge you to wait a day or two to vote to see what debate emerges]
    • No [Please read the first post]
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  3. 3. Do you vote for the Bush Tax Cuts #1 Bill?


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  • Poll closed on 04/30/2021 at 12:03 AM

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Decided to do the first bill: @Dobs @MrPotatoTed @WVProgressive @Rodja @JohnGRobertsJr @Cal @Rezi @DakotaHale @Sean F Kennedy @ConservativeElector2 @Cenzonico @Beetlejuice @Hestia @Patine @jnewt @Kitten @Magnus Rex @Pringles @The Blood @vcczar 

General Rules:

You are free to debate how the Senate aught to vote; however, this vote is supposed to be the final vote. That is the bill cannot be altered. It can only be voted for or against. Sadly, I haven't time for a fully invested RP. 

You will see the votes of the CPU Senators already in the poll. 

You cannot change your vote after you've voted. I will see if I can delate when voting can begin, so there can be some discussion. 

Each bill will have its common name, followed by the Wikipedia link for it. 

The first bill:

BUSH TAX CUT #1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Growth_and_Tax_Relief_Reconciliation_Act_of_2001

Feel free to convince other Senators, especially the 7 independents to vote for or against the bill. 

The next bill will be posted in about a week. 

***YOUR VOTE WILL NOT COUNT IF YOU DID NOT SIGN UP TO PLAY THIS SENATE FORUM GAME. If you'd like to join the game, let us know. Do not vote until you join the game. If you vote before requesting to join, then you will not be allowed to join.***

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The tax cut act is the next great step in continuing the work of Presidents Reagan, Bush Sr, and even President Clinton on making the United States the most competitive and powerful economy in the world. 

Anyone who wishes to see investment in the United States continue to grow should vote yes on this great piece of legislation. 

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Tax cuts for the middle class are a great thing, but this bill is simply squandering our budget surplus on tax cuts that will be extremely minimal given the fact that it is spread thin. It is also more preferable that we continue paying down our debt so we can afford tax cuts like these in the future. We need to think smart, and secure the future folks. 

I will likely be voting present on the bill. 

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I'm on the fence -- we could utilize these funds to expand our military services instead.  The military provides a great stepping stone for low-income families to achieve middle class status and beyond.  

If we give a man a tax cut, he eats for a day.  If we give a man an opportunity to serve his country, he eats for the next 4-20+ years!

Edited by MrPotatoTed
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This tax cut is precisely what this country needs to pick it back up off the ground! The government has no right to the lion's share of any citizen's income, no matter their station in life. If we allow private citizens to harness the power of the free market, everyone wins. Jobs will be created, good paying jobs will flourish. It's time for the Senate to take action, it's time to remove the burden. Let's vote aye.

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20 minutes ago, Pringles said:

Tax cuts for the middle class are a great thing, but this bill is simply squandering our budget surplus on tax cuts that will be extremely minimal given the fact that it is spread thin. It is also more preferable that we continue paying down our debt so we can afford tax cuts like these in the future. We need to think smart, and secure the future folks. 

I will likely be voting present on the bill. 

I agree with the gentleman from South Carolina, we’re all for middle class tax cuts but there’s a sunset provision in the bill. Until this is addressed I will be a definite no.

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14 minutes ago, MrPotatoTed said:

If we give a man a tax cut, he eats for a day.  If we give a man an opportunity to serve his country, he eats for the next 4-20+ years!

I concur with this quote by my Republican colleague, although I think focusing exclusively on military service is a little shortsighted. I think we can expand what it means to serve this country by collecting revenue for rebuilding infrastructure, transitioning to alternate energy, and other domestic improvements. These projects will create new well-paying jobs, new opportunities, and will certainly be more beneficial for the country than a tax cut. We could also use revenue to help improve schooling nationwide by building more schools, employing more teachers to reduce the teacher-to-student ratio, paying teachers more so that teaching K-12 becomes more lucrative and competitive, etc. 

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1 minute ago, vcczar said:

We need to somehow convince 18 of the 20 Senators not to vote "yea" on this. With CPU Senators, it's already at 47 and Dick Cheney will break any tie.

Grim Reaper Dick Cheney 😛 

701273128_download(1).thumb.jpg.b6cbcca309c6c05dc2c17c71b145f785.jpg

Edited by Pringles
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1 minute ago, Pringles said:

Grim Reaper Dick Cheney 😛 

701273128_download(1).thumb.jpg.b6cbcca309c6c05dc2c17c71b145f785.jpg

 

3 minutes ago, vcczar said:

We need to somehow convince 18 of the 20 Senators not to vote "yea" on this. With CPU Senators, it's already at 47 and Dick Cheney will break any tie.

It's almost a given that two of the Republicans will support it. It seems like that at least one more will vote for it. So blocking this Bush Tax cut is unlikely. 

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Just now, vcczar said:

 

It's almost a given that two of the Republicans will support it. It seems like that at least one more will vote for it. So blocking this Bush Tax cut is unlikely. 

Oh Al Gore. God knows where our debt would be today had he been President. Probably the last Democrat I'd ever vote for. Asides from Joe Biden in 2020 of course, and 2024 unless John Kasich or someone like that becomes the Republican nominee. 😛

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29 minutes ago, Pringles said:

Oh Al Gore. God knows where our debt would be today had he been President. Probably the last Democrat I'd ever vote for. Asides from Joe Biden in 2020 of course, and 2024 unless John Kasich or someone like that becomes the Republican nominee. 😛

I think Bush was terrible, but idk if I had much faith in Gore either. He’s no Bill Clinton unfortunately.

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6 minutes ago, DakotaHale said:

I think Bush was terrible, but idk if I had much faith in Gore either. He’s no Bill Clinton unfortunately.

Interesting. I am the complete opposite on Bill Clinton. Terrible person in my opinion, only considered a good President because he made the Democratic Party presentable, had Perot to take votes from Republicans, and had a Republican Congress for more than half his Presidency. Gore, despite often being regarded as boring, is a decent man in my opinion and I'd have some faith on many issues had he been President. Gore/Lieberman was such a moderate ticket looking back. I respect him for having the guts to not tie himself to Clinton, even if it did cost him the election, he did what was truly right. Something I couldn't say that I'd do myself if I were him. I'd do whatever it takes to win 😛 

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14 minutes ago, DakotaHale said:

I think Bush was terrible, but idk if I had much faith in Gore either. He’s no Bill Clinton unfortunately.

 

5 minutes ago, Pringles said:

Interesting. I am the complete opposite on Bill Clinton. Terrible person in my opinion, only considered a good President because he made the Democratic Party presentable, had Perot to take votes from Republicans, and had a Republican Congress for more than half his Presidency. Gore, despite often being regarded as boring, is a decent man in my opinion and I'd have some faith on many issues had he been President. Gore/Lieberman was such a moderate ticket looking back. I respect him for having the guts to not tie himself to Clinton, even if it did cost him the election, he did what was truly right. Something I couldn't say that I'd do myself if I were him. I'd do whatever it takes to win 😛 

I was in Middle School and High School when Clinton was president. I remember thinking he didn't have much of a backbone. It seemed like the only time he was tough was during the impeachment and government shutdowns. I know that isn't completely the case. Overall, I think he'll be kind of a forgotten president in 50+ years. His only major achievements were probably NAFTA, Welfare Reform, and the Surplus. However, the surplus was squandered almost immediately, Welfare still isn't efficient or always helpful, and NAFTA was already about 90% accomplished by Bush. Clinton just had to sign it and get enough Democrats to support it.

He was a fence-sitter on a lot of things. Did a lot of things half-heartedly -- healthcare, for instance. Ignored a lot of things -- Rwandan genocide. 

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Just now, vcczar said:

 

I was in Middle School and High School when Clinton was president. I remember thinking he didn't have much of a backbone. It seemed like the only time he was tough was during the impeachment and government shutdowns. I know that isn't completely the case. Overall, I think he'll be kind of a forgotten president in 50+ years. His only major achievements were probably NAFTA, Welfare Reform, and the Surplus. However, the surplus was squandered almost immediately, Welfare still isn't efficient or always helpful, and NAFTA was already about 90% accomplished by Bush. Clinton just had to sign it and get enough Democrats to support it.

He was a fence-sitter on a lot of things. Did a lot of things half-heartedly -- healthcare, for instance. Ignored a lot of things -- Rwandan genocide. 

I’m kind of a single issue voter in that I vote for who I think will provide the best economy. I don’t think Biden will be too terrible but it’s probably the reason I voted for Trump last minute on Election Day. I also would have picked Romney in 2012, Obama in 2008 (McCain hawkishness would have been a disaster for the economy, though Obama didn’t do too great in that regard either). 2004 I probably would have stayed home. 2000 I prob would have voted Bush and regretted it later. 1992 would probably be hard choosing between Clinton or Perot. 

While I hate the majority of Biden’s policy, I don’t think he’s terrible (as long as his recent tax hike proposal doesn’t go into effect). I like some parts of the infrastructure plan like improving internet, renewable energy, semiconductors. and certain infrastructure but so much is spent (+$2T???) and having ~20% of it ($400B) going to senior centers seems extremely weird and poorly spent for maximum investment. 

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11 minutes ago, Patine said:

I just had a review of the 2000 U.S. Presidential Election and all of it's General Election candidates (including Third Party and Independent ones, who are notably fewer than most post-WW2 U.S. Presidential General Elections). I have no idea at all who I could have given my stamp of approval to of the seven of them (eight if one included New Hampshire Senator Bob Smith's intention for an Independent run, which he withdrew from in October, 1999).

May I suggest the Prohibitionist Jack Fellure who has ran for every election since 1988?

"He asserts on his campaign web site that his platform based on the King James Version of the Bible has never changed. As a candidate, he has called for the elimination of the liquor industry, abortion, and pornography, and advocates prayer in public schools and criminalization of homosexuality. He has blamed the ills of society on those he has characterized as 'atheists, Marxists, liberals, queers, liars, draft dodgers, flag burners, dope addicts, sex perverts and anti-Christians.'

He sent a King James Bible to the Federal Election Commission as a copy of his platform. Fellure spoke with officials of several other third parties, seeking their endorsements. None were forthcoming."

 

I love fringe candidates like Vermin Supreme and Jack Fellure lmfao

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I oppose these cuts for the following reasons. Every person who votes for these cuts tonight, will be deliberately, and knowingly exploding our deficit, and opening the door to monstrous cuts to our already criminally underfunded social services. I mention the former, in the hopes that my Republican colleges, many of whom, purport to be deficit hawks ever time they are up for reelection, will hold true to their public ideals, and vote against this measure.  fear, however, that his appeal may fall on deaf ears, partly, because I believe a great many of my Republican colleagues, do not actually care about the deficit. They only use it as a tool to get elected. They are deficit hawks every sixth November, and slash, and burn conservatives the entire rest of the time. Let me state however, that I respect my colleague from South Carolina @Pringlesfor his honesty in regards to deficit reduction.

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President Clinton has left The United States with a budget surplus which has persisted throughout much of his second term. What President Bush is proposing would surely eliminate this, and undo all of the hard work done by members of both parties over the last 9 years to fix the budget. In theory, I suppose, I would not be opposed to a tax cut for working class Americans, but right now there simply is not enough wiggle room within the budget. If this government plays our cards right, the debt will continue to decrease, and avoiding any large new expenditures, the surplus will continue to increase and we should be able to revisit this topic of discussion in few years' time. Therefore, as of this moment, I am a nay on this proposal, and I hope that my colleagues can come together to join me in voting this way for the wellbeing of this nation's economy.

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President Bush is playing a very high level game of demagoguery with this bill.He wants to pass tax cuts for his billionaire friends who buyed and payed for his presidency,and he packaged it with nice and sexy tax cuts for the middle class.No,my friends this bill is not designed to help you and your families,it is designed to help those who dont need our help,but whose help President Bush and his Republicans need to win elections!And then my friends,when they bloat up the deficit with this,they are going to start screaming Oh we need to cut your wages!Your Social Security!Your Healthcare!Oh my god those unemployed are destroying our economy!No,my friends,President Bush is destroying our economy with his rich friends!

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22 minutes ago, Patine said:

These tax cuts are an obviously manipulative and disingenuous ploy by the Bush Administration to hoodwink the American voters, and it likely already is a sign of things to come and his true colours since his saccerine election campaigning starting to show, I am willing to speculate. The economy will not benefit meaningfully, the lower and working classes will see no benefit at all (and don't dare say, "trickledown," - we saw how that fiasco went), and, as several esteemed Senators already pointed out, it will be only a benefit for Bush's own support base, and as a casus belli for debt hawks to further cut social programs that are immensely needed - especially by those who not benefit at all from this scam. And I couldn't help but notice the disturbing rumblings by the Honourable Senator @MrPotatoTed of Pennsylvania, with his Vespian-esque rhetoric and "carrot-rather-than-stick," military draft, playing manipulatively and predatorially among the conditions of poverty, unemployment, and reduced opportunities to be lead to die, be maimed, or otherwise be psychologically and physically scarred from wars serving corporate profit or ideological clashes that do not serve or involve the common citizen or lead to any true good, and mostly ill, in a long-term, that every post-World War II conflict we have entered has been, always with Government lies to their citizenry about the reasons and circumstances around them. And, most notably, this target socio-economic demographic for such catfishing are not slated to benefit from these tax cuts. I stand confidently with a most emphatic nay.

Histrionics!  We haven’t lost more than 280 men in a single military engagement since Vietnam!

;c)

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25 minutes ago, MrPotatoTed said:

Histrionics!  We haven’t lost more than 280 men in a single military engagement since Vietnam!

;c)

With drones we could theoretically never lose a man while the enemy loses thousands, provided the aren't technologically advanced as we are.

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Had my honorable colleague @Patine controlled any direct aspect of our armed forces I highly doubt any progress would ever be achieved. Drones and our military need additional funding to allow the research and capabilities to prevent any form of civilian casualties on our end. Although I must say, the positions of my honorable colleague are deeply alarming as he'd willfully abandon our allies and return us to isolationism in a proportion of the dark ages. I hope he never finds himself on the foreign affairs committee as he'd likely demand a withdrawal from NATO, the UN, and demand we cut all ties from the diplomatic world as we leave our allies out to dry in the dust to people like Vladimir Putin. With all due respect. Shame on the Senator.

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