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AMPU Strong, Never-Nominated Candidates


vcczar

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Here's my thread for strong, never-nominated candidates. I'll go in reverse chronological order:

Bernie Sanders

Sanders dynasty, includes his wife, son, and daughter

LW Populist

2 Command, 1 Legislative, 1 Governing

Labor as initial expertise

Pacifist, LW Activist, Reformist

Integrity, Leadership, Propagandist, Puritan, Hale, Domestic Warrior, Predictable, Late Bloomer

Notes: Great for a faction leader. The combination of Puritan and LW Populist will make him rather restrictive as president. Also, "Predictable" will hurt him if Congress opposes him. However, would perform admirably in a domestic crisis. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, vcczar said:

Here's my thread for strong, never-nominated candidates. I'll go in reverse chronological order:

Bernie Sanders

Sanders dynasty, includes his wife, son, and daughter

LW Populist

2 Command, 1 Legislative, 1 Governing

Labor as initial expertise

Pacifist, LW Activist, Reformist

Integrity, Leadership, Propagandist, Puritan, Hale, Domestic Warrior, Predictable, Late Bloomer

Notes: Great for a faction leader. The combination of Puritan and LW Populist will make him rather restrictive as president. Also, "Predictable" will hurt him if Congress opposes him. However, would perform admirably in a domestic crisis. 

 

 

I've never been a Bernie supporter, but I've always found him to be Likable.

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36 minutes ago, MrPotatoTed said:

I've never been a Bernie supporter, but I've always found him to be Likable.

I think that the reason why a fair amount of non-supporters find him likable is because they view Bernie as having integrity in an era when not many politicians do, which would already be covered by his current traits.

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41 minutes ago, ConservativeElector2 said:

Yeah although Sanders runs to the left of many, I consider him as well to be more likeable than many other Democrats.

I agree with those that think this is more due to his integrity than his warm personality.

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8 minutes ago, MrPotatoTed said:

It’s a certain kind of integrity.  I believe he sincerely plans to achieve the things he promises, which sets him apart.  But there’s no plan to actually do so — it’s a naive integrity.  But integrity all the same.

He has a plan and plans. The issue is getting 60 Senators to support it. 

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Thomas F Bayard

Bayard, a rather large dynasty

1 command, 1 legislative, 1 admin

Justice as initial expertise

Bookkeeper, geostrategist, micromanager, predictable, domestic apathy

Notes: Historically, was the 2nd choice of Bourbon Democrats after Cleveland. Sort of always the #2 guy. Politics aside, would probably have been a strong president in many way, arguably better than Cleveland. However, he also has the micromanager issue that could get in his own way. Would not perform well if Congress is against him or if domestic reform is needed. Great in a military or economic crisis. 

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30 minutes ago, ConservativeElector2 said:

Do you believe anyone could do that actually?

Reagan, Bill Clinton, and (to an extent) both Bush I ad Obama performed well with Congress opposing them. "Predictable" creates situation in which the president struggles to get any laws through because the politician is so consistent in their behavior, demand, rhetoric that the opposition can easily strategize against them and stonewall them. 

For instance, Bernie Sanders and Ron Paul have all sorts of ideas but neither has the political finesse or political nature seduce or compel an opposition to work with them. 

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3 minutes ago, Patine said:

@vcczar Are you including Roscoe Conklin, here? He seems like he might fit the descriptor.

He probably won't be included as, while he was influential for his time, he was never a strong candidate in the sense that there was a realistic threat at Convention that he would be nominated. He has so much NY influence that he never wanted to leave his power base, so he generally had one of his puppets in the running. This is also a reason he turned down a Supreme Court nomination. 

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Aaron Burr

No dynasty, but his daughter is of another dynasty via marriage

Liberal

1 command, 2 legislative, 1 governing, 2 military, 1 admin

Military as initial expertise

Controversial, Cosmopolitan, Magician, Domestic Warrior, Micromanager, Illicit, Manipulative, Kingmaker

Notes: Great range but has a lot of flaws. Might get in his own way. Better suited to be Speaker or a high-ranking Senator. Likely to be a hit or miss president. Historically, he ran in 1796 as a weak candidate but by 1800 he was a strong candidate. Tied Jefferson in the EC in 1800 and would likely have won election in the US House had not Hamilton convinced enough Federalists to vote for Jefferson. The primary reason for this was that Burr was considered unprincipaled. In this sense, he's more of a modern politician. He operated with self-interest rather than via party principal. Hamilton considered Jefferson at least principled; therefore, predictable or reliable, even if his principals were different. Hamilton and some others feared that Burr wouldn't be trusted, would be entitled, and such self-serving attitude would destroy the Constitution. Some Federalists, I think Ellsworth was one of them, thought Burr's self-serving attitude was why he should be president, arguing that he's likely going to keep the country afloat purely by being so invested in it rather than in party principal. 

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18 hours ago, vcczar said:

Aaron Burr

No dynasty, but his daughter is of another dynasty via marriage

Liberal

1 command, 2 legislative, 1 governing, 2 military, 1 admin

Military as initial expertise

Controversial, Cosmopolitan, Magician, Domestic Warrior, Micromanager, Illicit, Manipulative, Kingmaker

Notes: Great range but has a lot of flaws. Might get in his own way. Better suited to be Speaker or a high-ranking Senator. Likely to be a hit or miss president. Historically, he ran in 1796 as a weak candidate but by 1800 he was a strong candidate. Tied Jefferson in the EC in 1800 and would likely have won election in the US House had not Hamilton convinced enough Federalists to vote for Jefferson. The primary reason for this was that Burr was considered unprincipaled. In this sense, he's more of a modern politician. He operated with self-interest rather than via party principal. Hamilton considered Jefferson at least principled; therefore, predictable or reliable, even if his principals were different. Hamilton and some others feared that Burr wouldn't be trusted, would be entitled, and such self-serving attitude would destroy the Constitution. Some Federalists, I think Ellsworth was one of them, thought Burr's self-serving attitude was why he should be president, arguing that he's likely going to keep the country afloat purely by being so invested in it rather than in party principal. 

Off-topic: The "Magician" part reminds me of Van Buren's nickname "The Little Magician."

Edited by Timur
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John C Calhoun

Calhoun dynasty, includes many relatives

Traditionalist

1 command, 3 legislative, 2 administrative

Agriculture expertise

RW Activist

Debater, Disharmonious, Efficient, Egghead, Leadership, Manipulative, Orator, Propagandist, Puritan, Unlikable, Geostrategist, Crisis Admin

Notes: Best for Party Leader or for US Senate or Speaker. Excellent cabinet officer in a crisis but "disharmonious" could cause issues unless the president is willing to let Calhoun get his way. Best as president during a war. His puritan beliefs might create issues in a time of reform. May have a hard time getting elected. Will quickly rise up the Senate ranks. 

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Champ Clark

Clark dynasty, includes his son

Liberal

1 command, 2 legislative

Justice as initial expertise

Pacifist, Reformist

Debater, Likable, Pliable, Bookkeeper, Low Brow

Notes: Aside from potentially being influenced, Clark likely would have made a decent president, especially in an economic crisis. While he may not have been as strong, invigorating of a leader as Woodrow Wilson, Clark is less flawed. Historically, Clark was the frontrunner in the 1912 election for Democrats. Had Clark won, he would have been only the 2nd Speaker to have become US President (Polk is the other). However, William Jennings Bryan gave his crucial endorsement to Wilson at the Convention, influencing the convention to switch to Wilson. Clark is much more similar to Bryan than Wilson is. I think Bryan did this because a Clark presidency would mean Clark would take over leadership of Bryan's wing of the party. Wilson was more moderate and wasn't a thread to Bryan. 

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1 minute ago, Patine said:

I kind of thought he'd be there.

Say, did you look at my own thread's latest update? It took into account some feedback you made a year or two ago, among other things.

Haven't had time to read. Saw a massive block of text. Only advice I remember giving was for you to read a book or two books I suggested.

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George Clinton

Clinton dynasty, includes many family members.

Moderate (shared a lot of conservative and liberal ideals that makes him hard to classify)

1 Command, 1 Legis, 3 Governing, 1 military

Justice as initial expertise

Iron Fist, Leadership, Provincial, Bookkeeper, Domestic Warrior

Notes: Best for governing, but would likely make a good-to-great president. Overshadowed by Jefferson and Madison. Was the most powerful man in NY for almost half a century, but lacked influence outside the state. 

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William H Crawford

Crawford dynasty, which includes some relatives

Conservative

1 Command, 2 Legis, 1 Judicial, and 3 Admin

Justice as initial expertise

Expansionist

Disharmonious, efficient, egghead, manipulative, controversial, cosmopolitan, bookkeeper

Notes: Technically a nominee and not just a candidate, as he was the 3rd strongest candidate in the 4-man horse race for the 1824 election. He was the frontrunner, preferred by Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, and by other leaders such as Van Buren. However, populists and voters were upset that "King Caucus" had nominated another politician without giving anyone but the establishment a say in the matter. Additionally, both Jackson, Adams, Clay, and Calhoun were too ambitious to wait their turn. Crawford's chances of victory decreased rapidly following a stroke, which paralyzed him. He stayed in the race and tried to use his frail health as a bargaining chip to make the other candidates his VP. That didn't work. Crawford is best suited as a president in an economic crisis or as a cabinet officer. However, his personality may cause some issues. Historically, despite some rough patches, Crawford served as Treasury for Madison and Monroe. He was also JQ Adams's first choice, as the new president hoped Crawford would continue on at the role. Crawford eventually recovered from his stroke after several year and became a state judge, but he never regained his star status. 

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Gary Hart

Moderate

1 command, 2 legis, 1 military, 1 admin

Justice as initial expertise

Controversial, Cosmopolitan, Bookkeeper

Notes: Sort of the first Bill Clinton, but not as upgraded as Bill Clinton, the upgraded Gary Hart. Hart was basically the frontrunner--after Ted Kennedy and Mario Cuomo declined to run--in 1984 and 1988. He was kind of the figure head of the New Democrats of which Clinton and Gore were part. They were basically Reaganized Democrats, who realized that Reagan had made New Deal politics unfashionable. Carter had a lot in common with New Democrats without every having been one. Anyway, Hart would make a good president in a crisis if he can avoid scandal, which killed his efforts in both 1984 and 1988. Bill Clinton had planned to run in 1988 but Hart's scandals scared him out of running since he had potential scandals of his own.

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Jesse Jackson

Jackson dynasty, includes his son

Progressive

2 command, 1 legislative

Media as initial expertise

Civil Rights, LW Activist, Reformist

Kingmaker, Orator, Cosmopolitan, Domestic Warrior

African-American

Notes: Good candidate to run for president, but hasn't much strength elsewhere. Biggest electoral downside is that he will likely run for president during a time when being Black is an election hindrance, at least nationally. Historically, Jackson was a strong 1984 and 1988 candidate. Democrats made a mistake in 1988 not making him the VP, in my opinion. They went for the likable Bentsen when the more charismatic Jackson would have made the Dukakis ticket a lot more exciting. Jackson could be restrained by having so many interests. The country will have to be on board with him for him to reach maximum efficiency. 

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