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AMPU Generated Draft 4/24


vcczar

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Who do you draft below (you can pick more than one) if all their abilities were equal:

Male Given Surname State
Arthur Merriam ID
Burwell Sanford TX
Caldwell Pearce AZ
Noah Burton LA
John Mann SD
Lance Cox VA
Charlemagne Onan OK
Henry Nunes OK
Woodrow Henderson KY
John Tremellose WA
Jeh Moniz AZ
Ethan Kirkpatrick AK
Edward Salomon KY
Crazy Gilchrist FL
Esek Edge NM
Steve Jones IA
Claiborne Tunnell IN
Lewis Adel NJ
Wayne Butler NC
Joseph Holder SC
Female Given Surname  
Anastasia Jones OH
Joni Bell NM
Ava Bible CT
Luna Lynch MA
Michele Barksdale TX
Mia Flournoy ID
Hania Vuono IL
Susan Gongoozler AZ
Cara White SC
Danielle Caldwell DC
Jessica Martin NC
Linda Shelton NE
Rebecca Griswold MT
Jaclyn Sumner NY
Janelle Shiras IN
Elizabeth Havenner TN
Mercy Upton ID
Bee Treen IL
Aaliyah Mandel WY
Akirah Murdock FL
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19 minutes ago, Cal said:

These names are much more normal! Still a few oddball names (Charlemagne, Jeh, and Crazy come to mind) but it is leaps and bounds better than the last time I checked in on it. Good job, V! 

I want some weird names just for flavor. Jeh isn't too weird. That first name comes from the first name of an Obama cabinet member. Crazy is actually from Crazy Horse. Charlemagne was the name of a major diplomat from the 19th century--Charlemagne Tower--, possibly one of the major diplomats to never be made state.

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31 minutes ago, ConservativeElector2 said:

Yeah I knew where the Jeh was coming from. Didn't know the others.

Is Bee coming from Bee Nguyen?

Maybe. I don't know if she's in the game or not. Maybe it's someone you added. I might have added Bee randomly. 

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11 minutes ago, vcczar said:

Maybe. I don't know if she's in the game or not. Maybe it's someone you added. I might have added Bee randomly. 

Yeah I don't remember adding her, but I hope she was added and I hope she runs for Georgia Secretary of State. I like competitive races in which I know both nominees.

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These are looking much better!

Male Given Surname
John Kemp
Compton Estabrook
Oscar Moore
William Parrott
Henry Presley
Henry Hanna
Samuel Dunford
Michael Debs
Louie Huntington
Patrick Pinchot
Jack Elson
Amon Polk
Theodore Mujica
Austin Beebe
Saif Cooke
George Robinson
Fisher Stone
Daniel Brennan
Lawrence Kee
Stephen Cheney
Female Given Surname
Jessica Koop
Isabella Mackenzie
Peggy Garcia
Alyson Huntington
Aaliyah Carper
Betsy Mallory
Sharice Washburn
Shelley Benjamin
Courtney O'Brien
Kara Freeman
Shana Webb
Mary Stewart
Gabby Shelton
Ashlee Cadra
Lucy Yeosock
Elizabeth Webster
Elise Douglas
Golda Cole
Irish Brown
Betsy Capehart
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34 minutes ago, Patine said:

"Tribal," is a pretty loaded and contentious term, nowadays - even for someone who considers themselves a member of a, "tribe."

I’m actually not 100% sure what it refers to in the game, it might be newish as I haven’t noticed it before.  My best guess is that it means Native American (which is funny when randomly paired with foreign born in the generator), but I’m actually not sure.

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8 hours ago, Patine said:

Referring to Native Americans (or any indigenous peoples of any colonized country) as, "tribal," as an adjective in that sort of context is considered demeaning and implying a primitive, backward, and ignorant lifestyle and worldview by nature. Like the usage commonly heard (and read) from the Victorian-era. It is a distinct and separate term and usage from having an indigenous tribal membership in Canada, the U.S. many Latin American nations, Australia, New Zealand, New Guinea, the Scheduled Tribes of India, Arab Bedouin Tribes, Central Asian nomad tribes, and African tribes. Just some advice so you, and presumably @vcczar, can avoid an embarrassing faux pas.

I can see your point, but it isn't constructive criticism if you don't recommend an alternative. What one-word tag would be better alternative to "tribal?"

I personally don't see anything demeaning or backward about tribal. At least in the US they consider themselves members of a tribe and publicly state it as such. The only other alternative I could think of is "Spiritualism," but that would encompass a lot of non-indigenous people. 

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7 minutes ago, vcczar said:

I can see your point, but it isn't constructive criticism if you don't recommend an alternative. What one-word tag would be better alternative to "tribal?"

I personally don't see anything demeaning or backward about tribal. At least in the US they consider themselves members of a tribe and publicly state it as such. The only other alternative I could think of is "Spiritualism," but that would encompass a lot of non-indigenous people. 

I definitely won't claim to be well versed in Native American sensitivities, but in the interest of proposing one-word alternatives:  Native?  Indigenous?

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21 minutes ago, MrPotatoTed said:

I definitely won't claim to be well versed in Native American sensitivities, but in the interest of proposing one-word alternatives:  Native?  Indigenous?

Maybe Indigenous then. I'll wait for @Patine to respond to see which riles him least or if he has an alternative. 

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9 minutes ago, Patine said:

As I've said, being a, "member of a tribe," is viewed as different than, "tribal." The only realistic and safe alternative is to just make no statement of their, "societal," status, from an anthropological point-of-view, if you will. This is a separate issue from their actual indigenous status by modern laws and treaties.

Well, I'd counter that from a "simulation of American History" perspective, that we actually do have to identify who is Native American and who is not, just as we identify which politicians are women, which are black, , etc -- because there were laws that impacted them directly, including their ability to vote and run for office.  Barack Obama isn't going to become President in a country that never legalizes black voting rights, and a country that recognizes black voting rights and gets their act together much faster  could feasibly see a President Harriett Tubman.  (I don't know if Ms. Tubman is actually in the game off the top of my head, I'm just making that up as an example of ahistorical outcomes influenced by the passage of laws within the game).

So "just don't include Native American people at all in the game" isn't great advice.   

I did find this article, which supports Indigenous as an inoffensive and appropriate term.  Naturally, one author cannot speak for an entire race -- but neither can three white guys on an internet forum. ;c)

https://www.insider.com/native-american-offensive-racist-things-2020-1#im-not-indian-im-native-american-indigenous-or-first-nations-4

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10 minutes ago, Patine said:

As I've said, being a, "member of a tribe," is viewed as different than, "tribal." The only realistic and safe alternative is to just make no statement of their, "societal," status, from an anthropological point-of-view, if you will. This is a separate issue from their actual indigenous status by modern laws and treaties.

You aren't resolving the issue you've noticed. What one-word label can be use to best capture all of the Native American religions? I know it's hard to group something but for game purposes and coding reasons we have to. What is their analogy to Protestant, Catholic, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Non-Religious?

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37 minutes ago, vcczar said:

You aren't resolving the issue you've noticed. What one-word label can be use to best capture all of the Native American religions? I know it's hard to group something but for game purposes and coding reasons we have to. What is their analogy to Protestant, Catholic, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Non-Religious?

To be honest, I agree with Patine on this one. Indigenous would be much better, Native as well. 

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19 minutes ago, Patine said:

Yes. I think what I'm trying to say, @vcczar, @MrPotatoTed, is that the word, "tribal," is an anthropological term indicating a certain level of societal development and organization - a level which Indigenous or Native Americans or Canadians are significantly above in the modern day and age - all debates on the cruel excesses and abuses of colonialization, "forcing," them there aside. Indigenous or Native are simple and concise enough, and don't risk unnecessary embarrassment or offense.

I'll put Native, then

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1 hour ago, vcczar said:

I'll put Native, then

Native or indigenous are both better, and I'd learn towards the later. However, Native American as a two worder is the term I've grown up being told is appropriate (but I don't know if its still that way or not!)

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