vcczar Posted April 24, 2021 Share Posted April 24, 2021 Who do you draft below (you can pick more than one) if all their abilities were equal: Male Given Surname State Arthur Merriam ID Burwell Sanford TX Caldwell Pearce AZ Noah Burton LA John Mann SD Lance Cox VA Charlemagne Onan OK Henry Nunes OK Woodrow Henderson KY John Tremellose WA Jeh Moniz AZ Ethan Kirkpatrick AK Edward Salomon KY Crazy Gilchrist FL Esek Edge NM Steve Jones IA Claiborne Tunnell IN Lewis Adel NJ Wayne Butler NC Joseph Holder SC Female Given Surname Anastasia Jones OH Joni Bell NM Ava Bible CT Luna Lynch MA Michele Barksdale TX Mia Flournoy ID Hania Vuono IL Susan Gongoozler AZ Cara White SC Danielle Caldwell DC Jessica Martin NC Linda Shelton NE Rebecca Griswold MT Jaclyn Sumner NY Janelle Shiras IN Elizabeth Havenner TN Mercy Upton ID Bee Treen IL Aaliyah Mandel WY Akirah Murdock FL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted April 24, 2021 Share Posted April 24, 2021 These names are much more normal! Still a few oddball names (Charlemagne, Jeh, and Crazy come to mind) but it is leaps and bounds better than the last time I checked in on it. Good job, V! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted April 24, 2021 Author Share Posted April 24, 2021 19 minutes ago, Cal said: These names are much more normal! Still a few oddball names (Charlemagne, Jeh, and Crazy come to mind) but it is leaps and bounds better than the last time I checked in on it. Good job, V! I want some weird names just for flavor. Jeh isn't too weird. That first name comes from the first name of an Obama cabinet member. Crazy is actually from Crazy Horse. Charlemagne was the name of a major diplomat from the 19th century--Charlemagne Tower--, possibly one of the major diplomats to never be made state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConservativeElector2 Posted April 24, 2021 Share Posted April 24, 2021 Yeah I knew where the Jeh was coming from. Didn't know the others. Is Bee coming from Bee Nguyen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted April 24, 2021 Author Share Posted April 24, 2021 31 minutes ago, ConservativeElector2 said: Yeah I knew where the Jeh was coming from. Didn't know the others. Is Bee coming from Bee Nguyen? Maybe. I don't know if she's in the game or not. Maybe it's someone you added. I might have added Bee randomly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConservativeElector2 Posted April 24, 2021 Share Posted April 24, 2021 11 minutes ago, vcczar said: Maybe. I don't know if she's in the game or not. Maybe it's someone you added. I might have added Bee randomly. Yeah I don't remember adding her, but I hope she was added and I hope she runs for Georgia Secretary of State. I like competitive races in which I know both nominees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPotatoTed Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 These are looking much better! Male Given Surname John Kemp Compton Estabrook Oscar Moore William Parrott Henry Presley Henry Hanna Samuel Dunford Michael Debs Louie Huntington Patrick Pinchot Jack Elson Amon Polk Theodore Mujica Austin Beebe Saif Cooke George Robinson Fisher Stone Daniel Brennan Lawrence Kee Stephen Cheney Female Given Surname Jessica Koop Isabella Mackenzie Peggy Garcia Alyson Huntington Aaliyah Carper Betsy Mallory Sharice Washburn Shelley Benjamin Courtney O'Brien Kara Freeman Shana Webb Mary Stewart Gabby Shelton Ashlee Cadra Lucy Yeosock Elizabeth Webster Elise Douglas Golda Cole Irish Brown Betsy Capehart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPotatoTed Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 My new favorite: A tribal, foreign-born black woman progressive Judge in West Virginia: The Honorable Hell Lostastep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPotatoTed Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 34 minutes ago, Patine said: "Tribal," is a pretty loaded and contentious term, nowadays - even for someone who considers themselves a member of a, "tribe." I’m actually not 100% sure what it refers to in the game, it might be newish as I haven’t noticed it before. My best guess is that it means Native American (which is funny when randomly paired with foreign born in the generator), but I’m actually not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted April 28, 2021 Author Share Posted April 28, 2021 8 hours ago, Patine said: Referring to Native Americans (or any indigenous peoples of any colonized country) as, "tribal," as an adjective in that sort of context is considered demeaning and implying a primitive, backward, and ignorant lifestyle and worldview by nature. Like the usage commonly heard (and read) from the Victorian-era. It is a distinct and separate term and usage from having an indigenous tribal membership in Canada, the U.S. many Latin American nations, Australia, New Zealand, New Guinea, the Scheduled Tribes of India, Arab Bedouin Tribes, Central Asian nomad tribes, and African tribes. Just some advice so you, and presumably @vcczar, can avoid an embarrassing faux pas. I can see your point, but it isn't constructive criticism if you don't recommend an alternative. What one-word tag would be better alternative to "tribal?" I personally don't see anything demeaning or backward about tribal. At least in the US they consider themselves members of a tribe and publicly state it as such. The only other alternative I could think of is "Spiritualism," but that would encompass a lot of non-indigenous people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPotatoTed Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 7 minutes ago, vcczar said: I can see your point, but it isn't constructive criticism if you don't recommend an alternative. What one-word tag would be better alternative to "tribal?" I personally don't see anything demeaning or backward about tribal. At least in the US they consider themselves members of a tribe and publicly state it as such. The only other alternative I could think of is "Spiritualism," but that would encompass a lot of non-indigenous people. I definitely won't claim to be well versed in Native American sensitivities, but in the interest of proposing one-word alternatives: Native? Indigenous? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted April 28, 2021 Author Share Posted April 28, 2021 21 minutes ago, MrPotatoTed said: I definitely won't claim to be well versed in Native American sensitivities, but in the interest of proposing one-word alternatives: Native? Indigenous? Maybe Indigenous then. I'll wait for @Patine to respond to see which riles him least or if he has an alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPotatoTed Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 9 minutes ago, Patine said: As I've said, being a, "member of a tribe," is viewed as different than, "tribal." The only realistic and safe alternative is to just make no statement of their, "societal," status, from an anthropological point-of-view, if you will. This is a separate issue from their actual indigenous status by modern laws and treaties. Well, I'd counter that from a "simulation of American History" perspective, that we actually do have to identify who is Native American and who is not, just as we identify which politicians are women, which are black, , etc -- because there were laws that impacted them directly, including their ability to vote and run for office. Barack Obama isn't going to become President in a country that never legalizes black voting rights, and a country that recognizes black voting rights and gets their act together much faster could feasibly see a President Harriett Tubman. (I don't know if Ms. Tubman is actually in the game off the top of my head, I'm just making that up as an example of ahistorical outcomes influenced by the passage of laws within the game). So "just don't include Native American people at all in the game" isn't great advice. I did find this article, which supports Indigenous as an inoffensive and appropriate term. Naturally, one author cannot speak for an entire race -- but neither can three white guys on an internet forum. ;c)https://www.insider.com/native-american-offensive-racist-things-2020-1#im-not-indian-im-native-american-indigenous-or-first-nations-4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted April 28, 2021 Author Share Posted April 28, 2021 10 minutes ago, Patine said: As I've said, being a, "member of a tribe," is viewed as different than, "tribal." The only realistic and safe alternative is to just make no statement of their, "societal," status, from an anthropological point-of-view, if you will. This is a separate issue from their actual indigenous status by modern laws and treaties. You aren't resolving the issue you've noticed. What one-word label can be use to best capture all of the Native American religions? I know it's hard to group something but for game purposes and coding reasons we have to. What is their analogy to Protestant, Catholic, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Non-Religious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 37 minutes ago, vcczar said: You aren't resolving the issue you've noticed. What one-word label can be use to best capture all of the Native American religions? I know it's hard to group something but for game purposes and coding reasons we have to. What is their analogy to Protestant, Catholic, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Non-Religious? To be honest, I agree with Patine on this one. Indigenous would be much better, Native as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted April 28, 2021 Author Share Posted April 28, 2021 19 minutes ago, Patine said: Yes. I think what I'm trying to say, @vcczar, @MrPotatoTed, is that the word, "tribal," is an anthropological term indicating a certain level of societal development and organization - a level which Indigenous or Native Americans or Canadians are significantly above in the modern day and age - all debates on the cruel excesses and abuses of colonialization, "forcing," them there aside. Indigenous or Native are simple and concise enough, and don't risk unnecessary embarrassment or offense. I'll put Native, then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 1 hour ago, vcczar said: I'll put Native, then Native or indigenous are both better, and I'd learn towards the later. However, Native American as a two worder is the term I've grown up being told is appropriate (but I don't know if its still that way or not!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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