vcczar Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/579564-abbott-orourke-in-virtual-tie-one-year-away-from-texas-governor-election Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 This is why 3rd parties suck. As I'm typing this, O'Rourke wins vs Abbott, if our forum represented TX. If McConaughey jumps in, he still gets dead last but helps Abbott get reelected. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezi Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 O’Rourke is just about my least favorite Democrat, but I’d still take him over Abbot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Patine said: Third Parties don't suck. The way American elections and party politics work, and the ability of two main parties to thorough abuse incumbency and ruin true free and fair, fully contested electoral politics through corrupt and underhanded, Microsoft-Apple-style tactics, and the institutional suppression and starving of media oxygen of Third Party and Independent candidates, and vilifying and putting a stigma on voting for them. So, no, I COMPLETELY disagree. Duopoly Parties are ones that suck. Oh, believe me, I hate our system, but that doesn't mean 3rd parties have any integrity. Any 3rd party claiming to be progressive is never going to allow Abbott to get reelected. They know that the current flawed system only allows them to come in dead last and ruin a viable party's chances of winning, generally the party more similar to them. A Green Party could certainly be 1,000 step in the right direction but if a vote for them costs O'Rourke (at least 1 step in the right direction) a supposed victory, and hands the election to Abbott (100 steps in the wrong direction), then the Green Party might as well just be Abbott, because that's who gets reelected. 3rd Parties Suck. And to be fair, I'll say the duopoly sucks too, but that's what we have. It will always be these two parties so long as the system is in play and these parties are the major parties. The Green Party adds no benefit for me on election day. It's a form of Grim Reaper at the moment when elections are close. 3rd Parties suck. I would much prefer a ranked choice system so I could vote for them. In that instance there would be value. I'd gladly vote Green as my first choice. But I can't do that. As such, Green = GOP Helper. And what is more perverse, they know they help the GOP. That makes them suck even more. At least Bill Weld, as the Libertarian VP nominee, had the integrity to tell his voters to vote against Trump and vote Democrat in battleground states in 2016. Jill Stein attacked Hillary Clinton much more than she attacked Trump. Clinton was awful, but at least she wasn't going to go the wrong direction on social policy, and likely would have moved at least one step in the right direction on social policy. 3rd parties suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 9 minutes ago, Rezi said: O’Rourke is just about my least favorite Democrat, but I’d still take him over Abbot. I like him well enough. I don't really have a reason to dislike him. I find myself rooting for him more than I do a lot of other Democrats but part of that might be because I'm from Texas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvikings1 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 To @vcczar's point, neither side has a 3rd part which is actually competent and a viable alternative. The left has the Green Party which is completely separated from reality. And the right has the LP (though it is increasingly popular with more on the left and fewer with people on the right) which is also completely separated from reality and run by incompetent leadership. One can agree that the 2 party system sucks, but there are not any potential viable alternatives at this point (as the other options suck as well). 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 14 minutes ago, Patine said: To play the Devil's Advocate, from a Green Party platform, Abbott and O'Rourke are not much different. It's not like O'Rourke is a grand champion of Progressivism - he's a "soft," Blue Dog. Would he stand up to Big Oil anymore than Abbott. Of course not! That's political suicide in Texas. But Big Oil is the big villain and monster in Texas for the Green Party. Social Progressivism and Social Democracy (again, not O'Rourke, personally's, strong suits) and gun laws are side shows to the Green Party platform - the Environmental Policy is Mother and Father to the Party, and all Parties within the Global Greens. Do you see there, just using the Green Party as an example. This is so detached from any sort of sense that it is almost embarrassing to respond to it. There are CLEAR differences between Abbott and O'Rourke --- massive. Any person that is from Texas (me) or anyone that has lived in America (most of us--but not you) would be aware of these differences. Obviously, O'Rourke isn't going to openly attack big oil because that's arguably the leading employer in Texas. If he did that, he couldn't get elected to implement change. What he would do is create more regulations and try to offset some of the bad things Big Oil does through environmental efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezi Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 51 minutes ago, vcczar said: This is why 3rd parties suck. As I'm typing this, O'Rourke wins vs Abbott, if our forum represented TX. If McConaughey jumps in, he still gets dead last but helps Abbott get reelected. Correction: this is why FPTP is a horrible voting system. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entrecampos Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 44 minutes ago, Patine said: Third Parties don't suck. The way American elections and party politics work, and the ability of two main parties to thorough abuse incumbency and ruin true free and fair, fully contested electoral politics through corrupt and underhanded, Microsoft-Apple-style tactics, and the institutional suppression and starving of media oxygen of Third Party and Independent candidates, and vilifying and putting a stigma on voting for them. So, no, I COMPLETELY disagree. Duopoly Parties are ones that suck. And fourth Parties? Also suck? I agree with @patine, FPTP is the problem, not the third parties. If you had many different parties with power like we have in Portugal, where we have a nationalist, a conservative, a liberal, a social democrat, a socialist, an orthodox communist,a liberal-marxist and a green animalist parties. @Vcczar problems wouldnt exist. He would have space to vote in what he wants, without prejudicing major blocs. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 7 minutes ago, Entrecampos said: And fourth Parties? Also suck? I agree with @patine, FPTP is the problem, not the third parties. If you had many different parties with power like we have in Portugal, where we have a nationalist, a conservative, a liberal, a social democrat, a socialist, an orthodox communist,a liberal-marxist and a green animalist parties. @Vcczar problems wouldnt exist. He would have space to vote in what he wants, without prejudicing major blocs. I agree that's preferable, but the US hasn't the luxury of that system. We haven't the luxury to even really have 3rd parties. The suck because they can't win and they spoil the election. They suck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezi Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 8 minutes ago, vcczar said: I agree that's preferable, but the US hasn't the luxury of that system. We haven't the luxury to even really have 3rd parties. The suck because they can't win and they spoil the election. They suck. Then we change the system! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 7 minutes ago, Rezi said: Then we change the system! By voting for obscure candidates who cant win anything and wasting my energy supporting them! Oh. Let's vote for actors too cause they r cool and totally will win right? Vermin supreme. Harbinger of change in America. God save the Queen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezi Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 12 minutes ago, Pringles said: By voting for obscure candidates who cant win anything and wasting my energy supporting them! Oh. Let's vote for actors too cause they r cool and totally will win right? Vermin supreme. Harbinger of change in America. God save the Queen. Did I say voting for 3rd party candidates? No. We change the system with ballot initiatives, supporting primary candidates who favor democracy reform, and pressuring our politicians. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 36 minutes ago, Rezi said: Then we change the system! He never said not to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Patine said: I just fear that he (and, I'm afraid, you) often put great trust and support in politicians for whom real and needed electoral reform and tackling institutional corruption (a problem almost never mentioned or acknowledged in mainstream U.S. politics, except in specific situations and circumstances) are not at all in the cards of their policies or those of their political allies. At least there's a 2% chance that it works using that logic, versus a 0% chance by supporting a party that gets 1.5% of the vote at best. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 19 minutes ago, Patine said: And it's those abysmal percentages that is one of the reasons why the U.S. ranks in the bottom five electoral systems and political cultures of the First World, however much that statistic angered @Pringles and one or two others. Do Americans REALLY want to linger in electoral and political system quality with Hungary, Japan, and Singapore forever? Do you? No, but voting for the Green Party is a pretty good way to stay there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 24 minutes ago, Patine said: So is voting for Democrats or Republicans EVERY ELECTION. Not every person is a monolith 🙂 But you keep on thinking that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 (edited) Well, some of those Green Party voters might have picked Trump because Clinton voted for the War in Iraq... ...Japan? Don't they have MMP? Edited November 3, 2021 by Timur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 I do not like having only two options. If both candidates are corrupt in my view (like US Senate in NJ 2018), etc. then, I would probably protest vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 Anyhow, McConaughey will not run. https://www.texastribune.org/2021/11/28/matthew-mcconaughey-texas-governor-2022/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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