vcczar Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 It's that time again: https://tiermaker.com/create/tier-list-of-us-presidents-with-joe-biden-782793 They updated the tier with Biden, how do you rank the presidents now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted November 7, 2021 Author Share Posted November 7, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVProgressive Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezi Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConservativeElector2 Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themiddlepolitical Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 (edited) . Edited November 7, 2021 by themiddlepolitical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodja Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodja Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 Also took this one with world leaders from 20th and 21st century.Not all of them political but most are. https://tiermaker.com/create/world-leaders-from-20th-and-21st-century-1257954 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodja Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, Patine said: Mohandas Gandhi, Mother Theresa, Steve Jobs, Hillary Clinton, and Elon Musk were never executive heads of sovereign nations, to be pedantic. But you were uncertain about them all being political, so... I didn't create this list.I personally would never put Elon Musk on it,the rest more or less deserve to be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConservativeElector2 Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 Like the presidential list not really ranked within the rows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPotatoTed Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 6 hours ago, Patine said: *chokes back response* I'm sorry but Trump at a B 🤢 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 I made this list a couple months ago in discord. I see no reason to do it all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPotatoTed Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, MrPotatoTed said: Bush's domestic policies were less than an A, as were Obama's foreign policies. But I gave them a few points of extra credit for solving overwhelming crises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted November 7, 2021 Author Share Posted November 7, 2021 6 hours ago, Patine said: *chokes back response* Yeah, I'm not sure why @ConservativeElector2 hates FDR and LBJ so much, considering that he probably benefits from a greater welfare state than they ever imagined. Austria is #6 in public social spending and #11 in net social spending and #4 in per capital social spending. I'm guessing what I would ask @ConservativeElector2 is if he would prefer that Austria be stripped to pre-FDR social policies -- no medicaid, medicare, social security, pensions, student financial aid, emergency bailouts, VA health care, etc., etc., etc. Secondly, if given the option would you prefer to live in Austria or America? Thirdly, if given the option would you prefer to live in a pre-FDR America or a post-FDR America? For me, I'd probably prefer to live in Europe if foreign-born citizens got equal treatment in the welfare states. Part of me holds out some slim hope that the US will eventually move that direction and it disengages from military intervention abroad. To me Sweden, Norway, and Finland seem just about ideal for inspiration. I keep hoping we'd adopt their best policies and integrated them into a way that works here, which I think is possible. I really like Finland's education system, which ranks #1 in the world. It's very student-centric and teacher-centric, obviously because they put more emphasis on education, something we should do here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 18 minutes ago, Pringles said: I made this list a couple months ago in discord. I see no reason to do it all over again. I'm surprised you didn't put Nixon in S. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 8 minutes ago, Timur said: I'm surprised you didn't put Nixon in S. Man must recognize another's flaws right? Even when wed like not to. 😛 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 (edited) Delete. Edited November 7, 2021 by Timur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConservativeElector2 Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 48 minutes ago, vcczar said: Yeah, I'm not sure why @ConservativeElector2 hates FDR and LBJ so much, considering that he probably benefits from a greater welfare state than they ever imagined. Austria is #6 in public social spending and #11 in net social spending and #4 in per capital social spending. I'm guessing what I would ask @ConservativeElector2 is if he would prefer that Austria be stripped to pre-FDR social policies -- no medicaid, medicare, social security, pensions, student financial aid, emergency bailouts, VA health care, etc., etc., etc. Hating is the wrong term here. I don't hate people, who have never attacked me personally. I disagree with them, because I believe they haven't done America a favor with their overall policies. Following that it can be assumed that they had been taken as role models from other politicians in other nations which lead to more bad policies around the globe. Surely I benefit from the welfare state, but does that automatically mean I have to support this concept? I don't think so. I had to accept it, if there were no such concept here. This would also mean that my family would not have to pay taxes which could be better used if we had not a welfare state in place. Like @MrPotatoTed stated a few days ago, voting Democratic locally, but Republican federally might be a nice idea on the paper to get things for free, but don't have to pay for other people's benefits. Furthermore I have never received student financial aid despite living in Austria. I know college colleagues who are setting up various fraud schemes to keep this financial flow running for a longer period of time than they would be eligible to get it (delaying their graduation date despite already having their end papers ready for example). This betraying of the welfare state also makes it's purpose questionable to me. While I never inform authorities about wrongdoings I hear about, I am not happy, when others take the nation for a fool. Quote Secondly, if given the option would you prefer to live in Austria or America? That really depends on many factors. Generally I'd say America, but I'm really not sure. The most important thing to me when it comes to moving is, to be financially secure and there are other nations as well. In former times I saw America as the go-to country due to the overall greatness of the nation. While I still believe America is in itself a great country, I am worried about some ongoing conflicts. I think the America up until 2015 was best. Since Trump, the Trump derangement syndrome and all the lies associated with it, wokeness, QAnon and so on, I really feel nostalgic about an America without these things. 1 hour ago, vcczar said: Thirdly, if given the option would you prefer to live in a pre-FDR America or a post-FDR America? Another question I can't answer straightly. While I enjoy history and believe many things have been better in the past one has to acknowledge that modernity has produced greatness as well. While living under a Benjamin Harrison administration and settling in the newly admitted Dakotas or so would be surely awesome, I am asking myself what to do there? Without the Internet and all the benefits a globalized world has inherently brought to us (foreign food, gaining ressources to learn about foreign languages, politics, cultures and so on, making and maintaining international friendships, overall comfortable city life and much more) it surely be a boring life. So probably I'd choose living in 21st century NYC over living before 1933, even if it's New York City. Quote For me, I'd probably prefer to live in Europe if foreign-born citizens got equal treatment in the welfare states. You just have to live 5 or 10 years, not sure, in Austria to be able to apply for the citizenship. Prior to that I don't think Austria really discriminates against non-citizens. I know many people not being from here and I don't feel they have much problems with their treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConservativeElector2 Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Pringles said: I'm sorry but Trump at a B 🤢 His policies are S to A mostly, his personal style is a straight F. So choosing the middle ground here. Also one has to consider the other contendants and the fact that results not personal attributes are important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted November 7, 2021 Author Share Posted November 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, ConservativeElector2 said: I believe they haven't done America a favor with their overall policies. But how can you evaluate this statement if you haven't lived here? 6 minutes ago, ConservativeElector2 said: Surely I benefit from the welfare state, but does that automatically mean I have to support this concept? I don't think so. I had to accept it, So if Austria put to a vote that Austria would remove their welfare system, and leave it to private enterprise to pick up any of the pieces (if they do at all), would you vote to kill the Austrian welfare state? 9 minutes ago, ConservativeElector2 said: Another question I can't answer straightly. While I enjoy history and believe many things have been better in the past one has to acknowledge that modernity has produced greatness as well. While living under a Benjamin Harrison administration and settling in the newly admitted Dakotas or so would be surely awesome, I am asking myself what to do there? Without the Internet and all the benefits a globalized world has inherently brought to us (foreign food, gaining ressources to learn about foreign languages, politics, cultures and so on, making and maintaining international friendships, overall comfortable city life and much more) it surely be a boring life. So probably I'd choose living in 21st century NYC over living before 1933, even if it's New York City. I guess I should have clarified that I don't mean literally living in Pre-FDR America. I'm actually talking about, would you have preferred living in a 21st century America in which Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, LBJ, and Obama had never become president, and assuming no other similar politicians had emerged, had left a 21st century America in which no federal regulations, federal minimum wage, federal healthcare, federal social security, federal benefits for military vets, federal protection for the handicapped or for minorities, federal welfare for the poor or elderly, etc. existed? Sorry for writing such a Patine-like sentence there. 14 minutes ago, ConservativeElector2 said: You just have to live 5 or 10 years, not sure, in Austria to be able to apply for the citizenship. Prior to that I don't think Austria really discriminates against non-citizens. I know many people not being from here and I don't feel they have much problems with their treatment. Oh ok. Maybe it's different there. I know in Sweden, for instance, that a lot of the welfare doesn't apply to people that move to Sweden. However, if I had a child born in Sweden, they'd get all the benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPotatoTed Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 33 minutes ago, ConservativeElector2 said: His policies are S to A mostly, his personal style is a straight F. So choosing the middle ground here. Also one has to consider the other contendants and the fact that results not personal attributes are important. Oh man, you’re going to be so surprised when you find out about COVID-19. ;c) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConservativeElector2 Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 3 hours ago, vcczar said: But how can you evaluate this statement if you haven't lived here? Policies focused on social matters in the way liberal governments implement, create a dependent society. A dependent society which views itself to be entitled to benefits from the government or feels to be victimized if they don't get these benefits is not something I'd like to foster. Surely we have to remember, that my expressed views are from far away. However, I am sure many politicians I admire express the same disappointment about the government overreach created by the named presidents. They'll surely know better than I do, but I am inclined to follow their arguments and my own observations. A government that constantly oversteps it's authority also can't be a good government. 3 hours ago, vcczar said: So if Austria put to a vote that Austria would remove their welfare system, and leave it to private enterprise to pick up any of the pieces (if they do at all), would you vote to kill the Austrian welfare state? Nowadays I got less dogmatic when it comes to such questions. When I was still in school I had voted 100% to abolish our current system, without thinking twice about any consequences. The problem is I still don't like people getting benefits from the government for free. Especially because others have to pay for this. However, I like to get things for free myself. So I am not that sure anymore, if I wiped out our benefits within one second. I am leaning to vote in favor of abolishing our welfare state with about 60%-40%, but I would strongly consider any consequences instead of blindly voting for an option which might impact my own situation negatively. The days I have received benefits are over anyway. In Austria parents get a ''children money'' for each child until they turn 24 and that's paid regardless of your income. As I have turned already 25 this year, we don't get it anymore and as I have already said I have never received student benefits anyway. Quote I guess I should have clarified that I don't mean literally living in Pre-FDR America. I'm actually talking about, would you have preferred living in a 21st century America in which Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, LBJ, and Obama had never become president, and assuming no other similar politicians had emerged, had left a 21st century America in which no federal regulations, federal minimum wage, federal healthcare, federal social security, federal benefits for military vets, federal protection for the handicapped or for minorities, federal welfare for the poor or elderly, etc. existed? Sorry for writing such a Patine-like sentence there. Ah I see. No problem. Well, that's another hard one for sure. I mean Obama is the one we could best switch to Romney or McCain. When he got elected in 2008 America wasn't like hell to live in I guess. Especially when it comes to healthcare I became more caring during the last decade. I had wiped out all these things immediately when I had lived in America and had been given the opportunity to do so. As I have said I rarely spent time to think about the actual consequences. Nowadays I think differently and would deeply feel sorry for the people who really need assistance. I mean we cannot let people die just because they can't afford their medication. My issues with social benefits are different nowadays. I think these things should be dealt with at the state level. I oppose a minimum wage and also don't think that any government should tell employees to hire anyone based on his race, gender, sexual orientation etc. I'd be open to ''federal healthcare, federal social security, federal benefits for military vets, federal protection for the handicapped or for minorities, federal welfare for the poor or elderly'' and even more willingly at a state level. We need to make sure that people receive an adequate medical treatment. Vets have strongly deserved a benefit if needy. Elederly people and minorites should also only receive support if they are really needy. Their status alone is not enough for me to grant certain benefits. I would especially try to end ''social fraud'', that means people living off the state while being not needy or in a condition in which they are able to work. I largely see this fraud schemes as a reason to oppose granting too much benefits. 3 hours ago, MrPotatoTed said: Oh man, you’re going to be so surprised when you find out about COVID-19. ;c) Well, I think Trump didn't do that bad especially if compared to other leaders. The media has covered him very unfairly on that. I mean European politicians haven't gotten something right as well, but they are largely praised... And it was Biden who said to have got a plan to end the pandemic. It was clear to me that he has got nothing, but I am still surprised over the situation now and the lack of calling out this obvious lie. Lastly we are injecting the Trump vaccine, of which certain people have said they are not sure if it is going to be safe. It took not even a year under Trump to develop such a vaccine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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