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Foreign Policy Questions - Current Events


Pringles

Russian-Ukraine Situation & Other Questions  

22 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think Russia is going to take military action against Ukraine in the next several months?

  2. 2. Do you think the proposals for an EU Army will ever succeed?

  3. 3. If Russia invades Ukraine, check the most appealing action that you would support on behalf of the United States.

    • Full commitment to defending Ukraine, coordinate with the EU, NATO, etc. and deploy large amounts of soldiers to Ukraine. Potentially causing a full on war between multiple nations.
    • Limited commitment. Send a limited amount of troops, resources, equipment, and bolster Ukrainian military capabilities. Aid to the Ukrainian state.
    • Diplomatic condemnation, no commitment of troops. Sanctions on Russia.
    • No intervention, let it play out, but issue a diplomatic protest against Russian actions.
    • No action whatsoever. Let Europe deal with it.
  4. 4. Do you believe Russia is wrongfully, and illegitimately combative against Ukraine?

  5. 5. As of late, how much do you approve of the European Union?

    • Strongly Approve
    • Slightly Approve
    • Neutral
    • Slightly Disapprove
    • Strongly Disapprove
  6. 6. How much do you approve of NATO?

    • Strongly Approve
    • Slightly Approve
    • Neutral
    • Slightly Disapprove
      0
    • Strongly Disapprove
  7. 7. How much do you approve of the United Nations?

    • Strongly Approve
    • Slightly Approve
    • Neutral
    • Slightly Disapprove
    • Strongly Disapprove


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1 minute ago, Pringles said:

Bro, I'm the South Carolinian, not you!!!

Unless you're trying to be Barb as part of the #Leave gang that is. 😛 

Quit trying to steal our spotlight of leaving unions and organizations... 😛 

Unions and organizations aren’t bad unless they have too much power. Having their own army is too much power

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2 minutes ago, Patine said:

Here's a bit of evidence, at least for Crimea, right from the start. The percentages by Oblast and for Crimea for the 1991 Ukrainian independence referendum. Not that Crimea's percentages are striking in their difference.

1991_Ukrainian_independence_referendum_results_svg.png.b5a7f04d3d4ecb74bf956b1c0e495c38.png

And yet a majority in each territory...seems like they were offered a choice.

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11 minutes ago, Patine said:

Fuck off, punk! I'm sick of your stupid, twisted, warped, sick shit, and pretending it's acceptable, and even somehow ethical and moral, and then pretending that nothing I say has validity and I'm alone in the world in my opinions. You know jack shit about the world! A deconstructionist youth at his most pitiful!

Chill.

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1 hour ago, Patine said:

 

I do think, however this crisis is resolved, in the long-run, the admiration for the cartography of Krushchev (and that of Stalin in the Caucasus) does have to be addressed more productively, and not automatically default to geo-political alignments. Same with the Israel-Palestine issue, in the end. It seems pretty hypocritical, in the long-run, to ignore these glaring policy faults, but continue to harp on Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Kosovo, and Kurdistan, to be honest. Across, the board, at the end of the day, whole peoples are arbitrarily denied nationhood, self-determination, and left to the mercy of governments recognized internationally as governing them hostile to their very thriving, prosperity, viability, freedom, and dignity. At some point, geo-political alignments on these issues have to step aside for more productive solutions - though, unfortunately, probably not today. 😞

But...they weren't denied. They had a vote and they voted for Ukrainian independence. The fact youre comparing it to Tibet or Xinjiang who weren't offered the same thing is a big slap in the face to independence movements that haven't been able to secure a vote in their history. 

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4 hours ago, Kitten said:

Can't wait till Ukraine fully joins NATO and the EU

Russia will definitely invade if that happens.

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2 hours ago, Patine said:

I'm not inherently against it. Nor am I against Scottish, Welsh, Manx, Breton, Occitan, Catelonian, Basque, Galician, Venetian, Piedmontese, Sardinian, Sicilian, Schleswig-Holstein, Bavarian, South Tyrolian, Alsatian, Faoroese, Vermont, Texan, Californian, Cascadian, Hawaiian, Lakotah, Alaskan, Western Australian, Ryukese, Jejuan, or Circumpolar Inuit Independence. Albertan or Western Canadian Independence terrifies me, personally, though.

Except there is no desire for Jejuans to have Independence. Never heard of it. Actually searched to see if something like that exists - it does not.

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Ukraine is not worth the risk of a large scale global conflict.

Russia already doesn’t trust the US because of the lies about adding Eastern Europe to NATO. No point in furthering that tension by sending a military presence to Ukraine. And there’s absolutely no reason to consider expanding NATO further towards Russia by adding Ukraine.

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8 hours ago, Patine said:

It's not remotely the same thing at all (at least not yet) and you know it.

Political party choice does not equal wish for independence and you know it. Those parties did not run on separatism, so you can't argue that it shows a desire to. If you had read the original comments you would've seen that was the context. All it shows is that once they stopped *winning* in Ukraine, Moscow pitched a fit and invaded. 

Edited by Hestia
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4 minutes ago, Patine said:

No, but many of them run on self-determinism, which often leads to separatism when impasses (like in Ukraine prior to 2014) happen constantly. Parties based on self-determinism just happen to be marginal in the United States. But, case and point, parties in Quebec often considered to be, "predecessors," of the BQ and PQ, like the BPC and such, were self-determination parties, and so was the IPP in Ireland before Sinn Fein showed up, and so was originally (and gravitates into and out of from separatist mode) Plaid Cymru. Self-determinism and separatism are often matters of contextual degrees. But you seem determined to find a way to justify seeing this in a simplistic manner of complicency and handling where Ukraine was completely right from the start, and the now-Moscow-backed (but not necessarily with such ties from the start) Russian nationalists were completely wrong the start, and it being that simple and easy to assess. The true poison in the well of Manichaean thinking made manifest again.

I, and pretty much everyone on this platform is SICK and TIRED of you twisting words and NEVER, not ONCE accepting what other people have to say. You think you're right in every circumstance and don't even listen to what I'm saying! I have provided maps, I have provided factual information, I have shown where I am coming from in each and every point I say. You, on the other hand, pull stuff out of your ass to tell me that I'm wrong when you don't show anything otherwise! You just assume that because they are a minority population in a country that they want independence. That isn't true in every circumstance.

 You treat it like every country is the exact same and has the same motivations, that Catalonia, Xinjiang and these Russian-backed separatists are the same and deserve the same connotation. Not only that, but you portray it as though Ukraine and Russia have equal blame in this, when that isn't true at all. You blatantly LIE. You specifically said "you seem determined to find a way to justify seeing this in a simplistic manner and handling where Ukraine was completely right from the start" when that IS NOT TRUE! If you go back one goddamn page,  you will find a direct quote that says otherwise. 

Continue sipping your Kool-Aid and pretending like you know everything, but in the meantime, none of us are going to want anything to do with your bullshit. Quit your moral superiority to everyone on this platform, and before you feign offense at anything I've said, go back two pages and you'll find where you called me insane. I don't need crocodile tears. 

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16 minutes ago, Patine said:

likes to do to me all the time while saying I'm the only person in the world who finds joking about nuclear strikes repugnant.

I Never Said That GIFs | Tenor

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5 minutes ago, Patine said:

@HestiaAnd, to boot, your views wouldn't fire me up nearly as much if you weren't such a gung ho military interventionist, and among the many that refuse to see that these interventions have a VERY bad track record of success and high rate of making things worse in the long-run, and always increase Anti-American sentiment, global terrorism, and the creeping tyranny domestically because of incremental, "national security acts and measures." You continue to think these interventions are a good idea, and even demanded, despite all of that. I probably wouldn't get so passionate in sparring with you, and several others, on these issues, if weren't for that.

This would be no Iraq-Level, Afghanistan-Level intervention, which I am just as against as you. This is a WW1 level threat, one that requires intervention.

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5 minutes ago, Patine said:

Ukraine is no Kingdom of Serbia before a Dual Monarchy. They have a significant armed forced of their own, with some very advanced vehicles. And Russia can't devote their whole force to such a war because of maintaining their vast borders and their, "interior." And Russia is NOT to deploy nukes that close to their agricultural heartland, the, "Black Earth," region. I think you may be seeing it as more one-sided than it is. The call for intervention seems to be more of a NATO/US/EU, "foot-in-the-door," power play, not an extistensial crisis or demand. Ukraine's military power is understated heavily for propaganda purposes.

You mistake my interest in stopping the expansion of the Russian Federation as interest in saving the Ukrainian people

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22 minutes ago, Patine said:

@HestiaAnd, to boot, your views wouldn't fire me up nearly as much if you weren't such a gung ho military interventionist, and among the many that refuse to see that these interventions have a VERY bad track record of success and high rate of making things worse in the long-run, and always increase Anti-American sentiment, global terrorism, and the creeping tyranny domestically because of incremental, "national security acts and measures." You continue to think these interventions are a good idea, and even demanded, despite all of that. I probably wouldn't get so passionate in sparring with you, and several others, on these issues, if weren't for that.

Your views wouldn't bother me as much if you weren't a complete asshole who feels like they know everything. 

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