Do you support the boycott of the 2022 Beijing Olympics?

[Timur]

The US will boycott the Olympics.  Australia has joined the boycott...

[Rezi]

48 minutes ago, Patine said:

Absolutely not. It hurts the athletes of the nations boycotting and their potential careers, but won't hurt China in the least. It will be the same diplomatic and athletic, at the same time, shooting in the foot as the 1980 Moscow Olympics boycott. An insult to, and attack on, the athletes of any nations that take part - spitting on them and all of their training and efforts - for what will amount to no benefit. You'd think the 1980 Moscow Olympics would have been actually learned from, but it seems this shows - along with military and economic policy and political practices - that a lot of Governments - ESPECIALLY Western ones - seem to have a hard time learning from past mistakes. So everyone here who votes, "yes," pat yourself on the back for supporting the insulting, betrayal, and possibly ruin of the careers of the Olympic athletes of boycotting nations for ABSOLUTELY no gain or benefit! 😞 

Athletes are still allowed to participate?? It’s purely diplomatic, and has no bearing on the careers of the Olympic athletes.

[ConservativeElector2]

There are only two options. Either the Olympic Games are moved to another country (logistic hardship) or a full boycott must be announced. A diplomatic boycott with athletes attending would be way to weak.

Edited December 8, 2021 by ConservativeElector2

[jnewt]

6 hours ago, Patine said:

It affects they're standing. Medals for the Generic Olympic Team, such as in 1980, mean very little in standing.

Team USA will still be competing, so American athletes won't be on a generic team. It won't affect the actual competitions or athletes in any manner.

[jvikings1]

A diplomatic boycott really doesn't do anything. So I guess I support the thought behind it but also acknowledge that it won't result in anything substantial coming from it.

[Rezi]

36 minutes ago, jvikings1 said:

A diplomatic boycott really doesn't do anything. So I guess I support the thought behind it but also acknowledge that it won't result in anything substantial coming from it.

Didn't you hear? This will literally end the careers of all the American Olympic Athletes.😛

[vcczar]

I don't really like the idea of the olympics anyway, since it promotes nationalism and overwhelmingly favors major powers over other nations. I suggest these changes:

• Every nation is eligible to partake in every event.
• Every team in an event will have the same number of athletes in that event. 
• Rather than nation vs nation, the teams are randomized or there's a draft. This would change the focus from nationalism to international cooperation. Imagine if a Palestinian athlete works with an Israeli to secure a victory in an event. 

[ConservativeElector2]

1 hour ago, vcczar said:

I don't really like the idea of the olympics anyway, since it promotes nationalism and overwhelmingly favors major powers over other nations. I suggest these changes:

• Every nation is eligible to partake in every event.
• Every team in an event will have the same number of athletes in that event. 
• Rather than nation vs nation, the teams are randomized or there's a draft. This would change the focus from nationalism to international cooperation. Imagine if a Palestinian athlete works with an Israeli to secure a victory in an event. 

I'd support your first two changes, but I disagree with the third. Nations competing against each is a major part of such events, any other version would be very watered down.

[Hestia]

20 minutes ago, ConservativeElector2 said:

I'd support your first two changes, but I disagree with the third. Nations competing against each is a major part of such events, any other version would be very watered down.

Adding onto this, but yes 'nationalism' is somewhat part of the Olympics, but it's that way for every country. It's not the kind of nationalism where you go and say "oh we're better than them" but particularly for smaller countries, a chance to be proud of where they're from on a huge stage that they may not get as often. I honestly think some nations would pull out if the 3rd was possible - some Muslim majority countries would not accept working with Israel. Pakistan and India may do the same. There's tons of countries that would demand certain opt outs that it just wouldn't work. 

[ConservativeElector2]

3 minutes ago, Hestia said:

Adding onto this, but yes 'nationalism' is somewhat part of the Olympics, but it's that way for every country. It's not the kind of nationalism where you go and say "oh we're better than them" but particularly for smaller countries, a chance to be proud of where they're from on a huge stage that they may not get as often.

Exactly, think of San Marino and their highly respectable performance in Tokyo.

4 minutes ago, Hestia said:

I honestly think some nations would pull out if the 3rd was possible - some Muslim majority countries would not accept working with Israel. Pakistan and India may do the same. There's tons of countries that would demand certain opt outs that it just wouldn't work. 

That's true as well. These proposals for opt outs with the Olympic Committee would certainly inflame tensions as well.

[jvikings1]

Without national representation at the Olympics, we would have never had the Miracle on Ice (the greatest upset in modern sports history)

[jvikings1]

4 minutes ago, Patine said:

 

Conversely, Puerto Rico (which had it's own team) beating and eliminating the star-studded U.S., "Dream Team," in Men's Basketball in 1996 or such was an example the other way.

You are referring to the 2004 team which was far from the Dream Team. Still an upset, but not close to the magnitude of the Miracle on Ice.

[Timur]

9 hours ago, vcczar said:

I don't really like the idea of the olympics anyway, since it promotes nationalism and overwhelmingly favors major powers over other nations. I suggest these changes:

• Every nation is eligible to partake in every event.
• Every team in an event will have the same number of athletes in that event. 
• Rather than nation vs nation, the teams are randomized or there's a draft. This would change the focus from nationalism to international cooperation. Imagine if a Palestinian athlete works with an Israeli to secure a victory in an event. 

I don't see Korean athletes working with Japanese athletes.

[vcczar]

33 minutes ago, Timur said:

I don't see Korean athletes working with Japanese athletes.

They would. Athletes care more about winning then they care about who they are winning with.

[Timur]

30 minutes ago, vcczar said:

They would. Athletes care more about winning then they care about who they are winning with.

Nationalism burns strong in soccer games between South Korea and Japan.

Anyhow, honestly, it's more likely for South Korea to work with North Korea (of course, if the Government is Liberal/Left-leaning, that is).

[Timur]

Canada and the UK have joined the diplomatic boycott.

[Rezi]

11 hours ago, Patine said:

I hope the 12 of you that support this idiocy quickly come to realize that, and feel just a little bit ashamed for your thoughtless support of this garbage!

I hope you come to realize that this doesn’t affect the athletes at all.

[Dobs]

13 hours ago, Timur said:

Anyhow, honestly, it's more likely for South Korea to work with North Korea (of course, if the Government is Liberal/Left-leaning, that is).

I really do not think this is the case.

[Dobs]

11 hours ago, Patine said:

Which is pointless and worthless in any effect. These nations should solidly and completely stand behind their teams instead. THAT'S where a show of integrity would be. All four of these nations thought NOTHING of sending their athletes into the wolves' jaws of the Berlin 1936 Olympics so to speak. And it's a show of hypocrisy to boot, because the things that are being protested have not been beneath the United States and former British Empire to do in the memory of people alive today. This boycott is hypocrisy, pointlessness, and dropping support for their own athletes disguised thinly as a show of integrity. But it's not integrity! I hope the 12 of you that support this idiocy quickly come to realize that, and feel just a little bit ashamed for your thoughtless support of this garbage!

Remember how we talked about name-calling?

[vcczar]

3 minutes ago, Patine said:

to the point where @vcczar was led to see it as a promotion of Nationalism

The Olympics was resurrected during an Era of increasing internationalism and nationalism. The Olympics were used by Hitler for race propaganda later on. 

[Dobs]

11 hours ago, Patine said:

and feel just a little bit ashamed for your thoughtless support of this garbage!

@Patine Calling our support thoughtless doesn't seem to engage with the fact that I imagine many of the 12 who do support it have done so because we have indeed thought about it and simply have different thoughts than you do. We are not thoughtless, we are just thinking about it differently. 

I recognize your position, I really and truly do. I can imagine it might be harder for athletes to compete without the full standard of their nation behind them. But the reality is that China is in the midst of a state-operated genocide and I don't want the American flag raised on Chinese soil in support of this. I'm glad that Canada, Australia, and the United Kingdom feel the same way and I hope that more nations follow suit.

[Dobs]

Just now, Patine said:

You just don't seem to fathom what I'm saying here, do you? Nor does @Rezi. I'm saying of any meaningful message to, or impact on, Beijing, this will have DOES NOT counter, at all, not giving full and complete support to our athletes. This concept seems so opaque to you, to the point you take pride in yet another short-sighted, impulsive, and counter-productive government policy.

I understand what you're saying! I just happen to disagree! Nothing is opaque to me, and I certainly hope the concept of legitimate disagreement is not opaque to you. I understand your concept fully, I just think it's wrong.

[pilight]

On 12/8/2021 at 12:25 PM, jvikings1 said:

A diplomatic boycott really doesn't do anything. So I guess I support the thought behind it but also acknowledge that it won't result in anything substantial coming from it.

It seems to have pissed off the Chinese, so it must have some effect.

[Timur]

8 hours ago, Dobs said:

I really do not think this is the case.

Take a look at the 2018 Pyongchang Winter Olympics when the South and North Korean teams worked together as one team...

[Timur]

8 hours ago, vcczar said:

The Olympics was resurrected during an Era of increasing internationalism and nationalism. The Olympics were used by Hitler for race propaganda later on. 

The irony is that a black man (Jesse Owens) won several gold medals there...