Downing St. Christmas Party breaks UK COVID Rules

[Hestia]

While the United Kingdom was on Tier 3 lockdown last Christmas, it has emerged that there was an office Christmas in 10 Downing Street, the home of the Prime Minister Boris Johnson. He has denied knowledge or the fact that a party had even occurred, but earlier today, Downing Street Spokeswoman Allegra Stratton stepped down after being filmed joking about the party after the fact. According to a Redfield and Wilton poll, over 60% of voters believe that Johnson should step down. This includes 49% of 2019 Conservative voters. The same poll showed Labour with a 4 point lead over the Conservatives, their highest since the last general election. Scottish Conservative leader Douglas Ross even broached the idea of Johnson stepping down. 

 

[ConservativeElector2]

I am not going to lie, my respect for Boris Johnson has decreased very much especially since the pandemic has hit. While I have long considered the Tories to be my 2nd most favorite party overall - and still consider most parts of them that way - I really think Mr Johnson is not the right person to lead them.  

[jvikings1]

It gets more and more realistic that we see a Labor + Regional Nationalist Coalition after next election. Current projections have the SNP sweeping Scotland (59) and Labor getting 271. That's enough for a labor + SNP coalition. Though Plaid Cymru is projected at 5, and the SDLP in Northern Ireland will likely have a few as well.

This likely results in approval of a second Scottish referendum on independence. I don't know about what could happen with Wales and Northern Ireland. But maybe they get more devolved powers as a result?

[Hestia]

21 minutes ago, ConservativeElector2 said:

I am not going to lie, my respect for Boris Johnson has decreased very much especially since the pandemic has hit. While I have long considered the Tories to be my 2nd most favorite party overall - and still consider most parts of them that way - I really think Mr Johnson is not the right person to lead them.  

I think there's a tendency among parties (regardless of spectrum) after a certain number of years in office to start trying to get away with things they shouldn't. I think this is somewhat of a symptom of that - not to mention the Tories have historically had problems with sleaze and scandal before. 

[ConservativeElector2]

2 minutes ago, Hestia said:

I think there's a tendency among parties (regardless of spectrum) after a certain number of years in office to start trying to get away with things they shouldn't. I think this is somewhat of a symptom of that - not to mention the Tories have historically had problems with sleaze and scandal before. 

Yeah, I consider most of the Tories honorable politicians, but as said the Prime Minister is not necessarily one of them. Likewise some of his inner circle is also somewhat questionable. Especially with some things that have been uncovered since the pandemic, I would have to hold my nose to ''vote for him''. The good thing about the British election system is that you can vote for your constituency candidate without really backing the party leadership. 

[ConservativeElector2]

4 minutes ago, Patine said:

I'm not that sort of partisan loyalist, myself.

Well, voting for Labour, Greens or Lib Dems makes little sense to me. Likewise voting for UKIP or the Reform Party seems odd and voting blank or not voting at all are by far the worst options. So... the Tories easily seem like the most rational choice considering what I have said.

[jvikings1]

1 minute ago, ConservativeElector2 said:

Well, voting for Labour, Greens or Lib Dems makes little sense to me. Likewise voting for UKIP or the Reform Party seems odd and voting blank or not voting at all are by far the worst options. So... the Tories easily seem like the most rational choice considering what I have said.

It'll be interesting to see if the Reform Party can make any headways in the next election without Nigel Farage as their leader. If not, then it's likely dead as a party unless they can find some other charismatic leader to lead the charge.

[ConservativeElector2]

3 minutes ago, jvikings1 said:

It'll be interesting to see if the Reform Party can make any headways in the next election without Nigel Farage as their leader. If not, then it's likely dead as a party unless they can find some other charismatic leader to lead the charge.

I think it won't be the case. I had welcomed parliament seats or peerage nominations for people like Farage or Richard Tice, but I believe the Reform Party will be done. Most parties founded around a certain person, have faltered after said person's exit from politics.

[Pringles]

25 minutes ago, Hestia said:

I think there's a tendency among parties (regardless of spectrum) after a certain number of years in office to start trying to get away with things they shouldn't. I think this is somewhat of a symptom of that - not to mention the Tories have historically had problems with sleaze and scandal before. 

This is very true on a lot of levels in the UK. Labour usually runs into trouble with the economy and general state of the country after too long... Tories, well, just see Thatcher and now this. 
 

UK is a very cyclical political environment. 

[jvikings1]

4 minutes ago, ConservativeElector2 said:

I think it won't be the case. I had welcomed parliament seats or peerage nominations for people like Farage or Richard Tice, but I believe the Reform Party will be done. Most parties founded around a certain person, have faltered after said person's exit from politics.

Especially if they cannot capitalize off of the state of the conservative party right now, there's no hope for going forward

[Pringles]

59 minutes ago, ConservativeElector2 said:

I am not going to lie, my respect for Boris Johnson has decreased very much especially since the pandemic has hit. While I have long considered the Tories to be my 2nd most favorite party overall - and still consider most parts of them that way - I really think Mr Johnson is not the right person to lead them.  

I'm starting to doubt the ability of the Prime Minister to continue with the constant bashing he's gotten for the last few months really. However, I do believe that he is the best leader the Tories have had since John Major.

I think his movement in the party has overall been a positive one, because David Cameron is largely the man to blame for a lot of the state of affairs in the UK. I don't hate David Cameron, but his positions on Brexit, his inability to display better leadership throughout that crisis, and too much austerity overall hinders my opinion of him. 

Theresa May was a great person, with great ideas but she simply wasn't up for the job. She too found herself in a troubled time.

Boris campaigned on getting Brexit done, moderating the controversial economic policies of the past, and look how well he did in 2019. 

Although in my personal opinion, I believe a lot of the media coverage surrounding Boris has been unfair, and in many cases, a double standard, frankly, I'm not seeing a very bright horizon for him, nor the Conservative Party. And its saddening, because he will be the third Prime Minister that has largely suffered a similar fate as the last 3 predecessors. 

I still think Boris overall managed the COVID crisis in 2020 quite well, despite the hiccups, 80% of the UK or so is fully vaccinated (guesstimating here feel free to fact check me). 

So if it's Boris's time soon, I'll be saddened by it, but in the end, it's all a part of the political cycle for a party that's held onto power for so, so, so long. 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Pringles

[Hestia]

5 minutes ago, Pringles said:

Although in my personal opinion, I believe a lot of the media coverage surrounding Boris has been unfair, and in many cases, a double standard, frankly, I'm not seeing a very bright horizon for him, nor the Conservative Party. And its saddening, because he will be the third Prime Minister that has largely suffered a similar fate as the last 3 predecessors. 

 

UK's media is very right-leaning overall by all definitions. Their media though is usually better than ours at calling out those in power and asking actual questions that need to be answered. Below is a graph shown of the coverage of the campaigns positively and negatively in 2019 (done through Loughborough University if anyone cares 😛 ). As well as their endorsements in the 2019 campaign. I wouldn't confuse tough questions with media bias. I think we'd both agree that this kind of standard should be upheld to all government heads, and usually isn't. 

[Pringles]

Just now, Patine said:

John Major is interesting in that he spent a notable amount of time in his childhood growing up in a crowded flat in Brixton, the District of Greater London where David Bowie also hailed from, and is now a nest of drugs, gangs, and the source of British Trap music artists. More an origin one would expect of a Labour rather than a Conservative PM. It's interesting how such life stories sometimes go...

One of the reasons I greatly respect him is because of his upbringing, and his rise from that so to speak. 

 

[ConservativeElector2]

2 minutes ago, Pringles said:

I think his movement in the party has overall been a positive one, because David Cameron is largely the man to blame for a lot of the state of affairs in the UK. I don't hate David Cameron, but his positions on Brexit, his inability to display better leadership throughout that crisis, and too much austerity overall hinders my opinion of him. 

Theresa May was a great person, with great ideas but she simply wasn't up for the job. She too found herself in a troubled time.

Boris campaigned on getting Brexit done, moderating the controversial economic policies of the past, and look how well he did in 2019. 

Yeah, I disagreed with Cameron's stance on Brexit as well. Thankfully he promised the referendum, but he should been a clear voice for ''Leave''. Thinking of May makes me nostalgic ha.  However, it was hard for her to lead the party through such difficult times...

Yeah in 2019 I was still a fan of Boris. Not a huge one, because his whole personality and lifestyle is not really what I'd expect from a politician but hey he was cool and victorious. But when it came to the pandemic, well... there had been rumours he got himself infected with Covid to show it's not dangerous?! If that's true (not sure actually) he would hardly to be sustained as Prime Minister for me. That's reeeally stupid. Also the whole Dominic Cummings stuff and a few questionable appointments like Hancock, Raab and so on made his leadership skills questionable for me.

Quote

Although in my personal opinion, I believe a lot of the media coverage surrounding Boris has been unfair, and in many cases, a double standard, frankly

Sadly that's often the case nowadays...

Quote

So if it's Boris's time soon, I'll be saddened by it, but in the end, it's all a part of the political cycle for a party that's held onto power for so, so, so long. 

I'd be sorry for you bud. But I truly believe people like Rees-Mogg, John Redwood or even Michael Gove would be much better Prime Ministers. Sadly they wouldn't get the top notch office anyway I guess.

[Hestia]

1 minute ago, ConservativeElector2 said:

I'd be sorry for you bud. But I truly believe people like Rees-Mogg, John Redwood or even Michael Gove would be much better Prime Ministers. Sadly they wouldn't get the top notch office anyway I guess.

https://www.indy100.com/news/jacob-rees-mogg-christmas-party-b1971879

Not sure Mogg is the savior you're looking for...

[Pringles]

1 minute ago, Hestia said:

UK's media is very right-leaning overall by all definitions. Their media though is usually better than ours at calling out those in power and asking actual questions that need to be answered. Below is a graph shown of the coverage of the campaigns positively and negatively in 2019 (done through Loughborough University if anyone cares 😛 ). As well as their endorsements in the 2019 campaign. I wouldn't confuse tough questions with media bias. I think we'd both agree that this kind of standard should be upheld to all government heads, and usually isn't. 

This is true, concerning elections that is, but remember that in 2019 there was so much anti-corbynite sentiment that it inflated the persona of Johnson so to speak.

I'm mainly just referring to the fact that an entire premiership is crumbling over a reckless Christmas Party. (Which I obviously condemn for obvious reasons.) The same standards should be applied to everyone.

We'll never really know until we see a Labour Administration to see if there's any kind of double standard that I feel like might arise. But the UK media is indeed better as a whole than American media. A hell of a lot better.

Also if you put Johnson's entire political career into perspective, I, and you may not, that's just part of the political bias which is fine, I do think overall Johnson has been treated unfairly... even if he did catch a break in 2019. 😛 

Just because Johnson has a tad of crazy in him concerning his personality doesn't mean he's British Trump 2.0. 😛 

 

[ConservativeElector2]

1 minute ago, Hestia said:

https://www.indy100.com/news/jacob-rees-mogg-christmas-party-b1971879

Not sure Mogg is the savior you're looking for...

Well, well, well Jacob is among a handful people I would forgive such an error 😛 He has entertained me for years, so I have to pay this back somehow.

[Pringles]

4 minutes ago, ConservativeElector2 said:

Also the whole Dominic Cummings stuff and a few questionable appointments like Hancock, Raab and so on made his leadership skills questionable for me.

And yes I agree, especially during the Afghanistan crisis, Raab was a disgrace. Ive often stated in the discord Boris should've halloween'ed massacre'd all of those bozos. 😛 

[Hestia]

Just now, Pringles said:

This is true, concerning elections that is, but remember that in 2019 there was so much anti-corbynite sentiment that it inflated the persona of Johnson so to speak.

I'm mainly just referring to the fact that an entire premiership is crumbling over a reckless Christmas Party. (Which I obviously condemn for obvious reasons.) The same standards should be applied to everyone.

We'll never really know until we see a Labour Administration to see if there's any kind of double standard that I feel like might arise. But the UK media is indeed better as a whole than American media. A hell of a lot better.

Also if you put Johnson's entire political career into perspective, I, and you may not, that's just part of the political bias which is fine, I do think overall Johnson has been treated unfairly... even if he did catch a break in 2019. 😛 

Just because Johnson has a tad of crazy in him concerning his personality doesn't mean he's British Trump 2.0. 😛 

 

But...there's the proof right there how Labour is treated - Corbyn was eviscerated in the media. It's not like they won't do it to them. If you look back farther, Tories rack up newspaper endorsements every election. Corbyn wasn't the X factor.

The Christmas Party is pretty important for a government that didn't let families see loved ones while they were dying in nursing homes and hospitals, but they were living it up in 10 Downing Street. It hits at the raw emotion of a lot of people - there were 500 something people that died that day. And it's being reported there was up to 4 different parties, some of which Johnson gave speeches at and attended. We're kind of desensitized to that kind of stuff in the US, but when 60%+ of your country wants you to resign over it, it's not the media overhyping it. 

And it's not like it's the first thing either - this has been a few months of cascading downhill, even farther back if you stretch to the Dominic Cummings fiasco with Barnard Castle in the spring. Then the Afghanistan withdrawal which got a lot of press in the Commons, as well as the blundering speech about Peppa Pig, the Paterson controversy with changing the rules for his own party. It's (maybe) the bottom of a very large hill of things bottling up. I don't think he is British Trump, they're very different people. 

[Hestia]

As well as the last two Scottish Tory leaders lambasting you publicly and one hinting at your resignation 😛 Ruth Davidson also called him pathetic

[Hestia]

AND we've got a by-election coming up!!! 😄 North Shropshire Dec. 16th! Lib Dems hope they can take it and immediately pounced on this throwing out leaflets today.

 

[Pringles]

1 minute ago, Hestia said:

Then the Afghanistan withdrawal which got a lot of press in the Commons,

I strongly agree that this was the harbinger of the ultimate downfall tbh. 

2 minutes ago, Hestia said:

The Christmas Party is pretty important for a government that didn't let families see loved ones while they were dying in nursing homes and hospitals, but they were living it up in 10 Downing Street. It hits at the raw emotion of a lot of people - there were 500 something people that died that day. And it's being reported there was up to 4 different parties, some of which Johnson gave speeches at and attended. We're kind of desensitized to that kind of stuff in the US, but when 60%+ of your country wants you to resign over it, it's not the media overhyping it. 

 

And yeah, I'll admit it's hard to take the ramifications of this because I don't know what it's like to be threatened a $10,000 fine (I think it's something like that when they were locked down.) Just for going out with friends, or hosting a party. I mean we just had Thanksgiving over here, and I went to Thanksgiving last year which of course, was during an arguably worse COVID time. 

 

[Dobs]

4 hours ago, Patine said:

especially the three resident Bushists,

I’m curious, Actinguy, CE2, and Pringles?

[Pringles]

7 minutes ago, Patine said:

They don't hide their staunch loyalty and fanboy qualities well, do they? 😛

Only one of those 3 opposes the Patriot Act by the way. 😛

Or your version... the Unpatriot Act. 😛 

[Pringles]

2 minutes ago, Patine said:

Is it you? I admit, I have never seen a post of by you directly the Act of Legislation that was (and still is) illegal and Unconstitutional, as what it entailed requires a whole Constitutional Amendment to be legal and valid, not a simple of Act of Congress, because of multiple Constitutional rights and guarantees that are ignored or circumvented. However, given that I have never heard you speak directly on the illegal, invalid, and insufficiently-empowered-for-what-it-did act, you were otherwise a STRONG apologist of all other crimes and abuses of power - and outright lies, and a blatant defender of TORTURE - by the Bush Administration, and like the other two, a strong proponent in absolute and indefinite immunity from investigation, prosecution, or punishment, or the chance or consideration thereof, even in retrospect, of ANYONE or ANYTHING done in these areas by the Bush Administration. Judging by the posts by you as I recall.

I don't want things to get heated like they usually do but yes, it's me. 😛 

If you recall that RP/Activity Vcczar did when the forum was first made, the one where we were Senators in the US and he'd have us vote on big legislation throughout 2000-2021 or whatever, I either abstained it, or voted no on it, can't remember, but I began a filibuster by reading the Shrek script on it so uh, I thought that'd say enough. 

But no fault of your own that you may not remember that. 😛