Timur Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 8 hours ago, Patine said: High-ranking Government hypocrisy and flagrantly ignoring their own laws and rules is certainly not a U.S.-only sin. I think most Governments around the world do it, and far too often. This is among the reasons why accountability and transparency of Government, and real consequences for such breaches of laws by it's members, is just a big rallying for me, despite the fact several posters here mock me or deride me for the idea (especially the three resident Bushists, because God forbid, "their boy Dubya," even have a chance to face trial or prison for the high crimes he's committed). But, all and all, I've always been calling out, from the start, those in high in Government snubbing and showing contempt for the laws of their own nations, and breaking their oaths of office. A couple politicians in South Korea have also been caught in hypocrisy, I believe. Also, there's the mayor of San Francisco, London Breed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 6 hours ago, Hestia said: https://www.indy100.com/news/jacob-rees-mogg-christmas-party-b1971879 Not sure Mogg is the savior you're looking for... Well, I abhor some of the obscene swearing made by some commenters... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Hestia said: But...there's the proof right there how Labour is treated - Corbyn was eviscerated in the media. It's not like they won't do it to them. If you look back farther, Tories rack up newspaper endorsements every election. Corbyn wasn't the X factor. The Christmas Party is pretty important for a government that didn't let families see loved ones while they were dying in nursing homes and hospitals, but they were living it up in 10 Downing Street. It hits at the raw emotion of a lot of people - there were 500 something people that died that day. And it's being reported there was up to 4 different parties, some of which Johnson gave speeches at and attended. We're kind of desensitized to that kind of stuff in the US, but when 60%+ of your country wants you to resign over it, it's not the media overhyping it. And it's not like it's the first thing either - this has been a few months of cascading downhill, even farther back if you stretch to the Dominic Cummings fiasco with Barnard Castle in the spring. Then the Afghanistan withdrawal which got a lot of press in the Commons, as well as the blundering speech about Peppa Pig, the Paterson controversy with changing the rules for his own party. It's (maybe) the bottom of a very large hill of things bottling up. I don't think he is British Trump, they're very different people. Well, I mean, Corbyn can be pretty left wing (though I like him personally). Definitely not toxic unlike some of those writers for the Guardian. Edited December 9, 2021 by Timur 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted December 9, 2021 Author Share Posted December 9, 2021 Just now, Timur said: Well, I abhor some of the obscene swearing made by some commenters... I imagine some passions would run high if a person who knew someone who died of COVID and did everything right while Mogg is crapping all over their sacrifices. I imagine they abhor that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/labour-s-mask-hypocrisy https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/30/no-facemasks-little-social-distancing-labours-covid-hypocrisy/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted December 9, 2021 Author Share Posted December 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Timur said: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/labour-s-mask-hypocrisy https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/30/no-facemasks-little-social-distancing-labours-covid-hypocrisy/ I don't believe this was during a Tier 3 lockdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 I don't believe Rees-Mogg is the biggest advocate for masks. https://www.itv.com/news/2021-10-28/im-not-spewing-covid-rees-mogg-defends-maskless-budget-appearance https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-58993387 I like his demeanour, but I don't agree with him on this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 (edited) https://headtopics.com/au/finland-s-pm-apologises-for-clubbing-til-4am-when-she-should-have-been-isolating-22782523 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59577371 Edited December 9, 2021 by Timur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConservativeElector2 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 16 hours ago, Hestia said: AND we've got a by-election coming up!!! 😄 North Shropshire Dec. 16th! Lib Dems hope they can take it and immediately pounced on this throwing out leaflets today. The problem here is the grandma doesn't necessarily need to be sad about being alone at Christmas. Likewise Boris is not the privileged person here. I'd rather say he was more at risk at a mass gathering than someone who ''had'' to spend Christmas alone. If your relatives are like minded everyone's free to breach lockdown rules, at least theoretically. Where I live you always could have done whatever you wanted, even when a lockdown was announced. I am choosing freely to stay away from mass gatherings. But ok, I am the kind of person who enjoys his computer way more than parties with dull and awkward conversations. Clearly you shouldn't go to mass gatherings when a deadly pandemic is going on. So I chose freely to stay away from parties like the one Boris was probably attending. So I am not sure if senior citizens need to be sad when there people aren't around them. Probably it's better that way for obvious reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted December 9, 2021 Author Share Posted December 9, 2021 14 minutes ago, ConservativeElector2 said: The problem here is the grandma doesn't necessarily need to be sad about being alone at Christmas. Likewise Boris is not the privileged person here. I'd rather say he was more at risk at a mass gathering than someone who ''had'' to spend Christmas alone. If your relatives are like minded everyone's free to breach lockdown rules, at least theoretically. Where I live you always could have done whatever you wanted, even when a lockdown was announced. I am choosing freely to stay away from mass gatherings. But ok, I am the kind of person who enjoys his computer way more than parties with dull and awkward conversations. Clearly you shouldn't go to mass gatherings when a deadly pandemic is going on. So I chose freely to stay away from parties like the one Boris was probably attending. So I am not sure if senior citizens need to be sad when there people aren't around them. Probably it's better that way for obvious reasons. I think you're confusing the message. The grandmother was doing her duty and staying away from people - but was also suffering the emotional toll that went along with that, not being able to see her family. Boris on the other hand, was living it up while he put in measures that forced people to stay apart. While I agree with those measures mostly - last Christmas I only saw my grandparents for a brief time outside with masks on, he didn't follow his own rules that he put in place. That's the biggest problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConservativeElector2 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, Hestia said: he didn't follow his own rules that he put in place. That's the biggest problem. Yes, I agree on this. You have such politicians in Austria as well. It's disgusting, but the alternative would be no rules at all (or responsible politicians following their own rules). Without any rules many more people would have been likely infected and most importantly had been spreading the disease more likely to those taking care of themselves in a rational way. So, it's either sacrificing them or trying to protect them. I mean I would have had no problem with no rules but distance learning, because I am confident to know what's good to do and what's not (going to parties, shaking hands, don't washing hands etc.), but I also see the importance of a rational way of living with Covid. One can't ignore every health standard for example. 12 minutes ago, Hestia said: I think you're confusing the message. The grandmother was doing her duty and staying away from people - but was also suffering the emotional toll that went along with that, not being able to see her family. Boris on the other hand, was living it up while he put in measures that forced people to stay apart. Yes, I see your point, however as I said Boris is not the privileged one here - at least not for me. I see no point in going to Christmas parties when a deadly pandemic is going on. He was more at risk to get (re-)infected, because of his own stupidity. As hard as it might sound, but the older generation was most likely in a safer condition when staying apart from other people. I would be furious with politicians ignoring their own rules because of their hypocrisy, but not necessarily because they have infringed my own rights. I choose freely to not attending events these days, so I don't really feel like rights have been taken away from me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted December 9, 2021 Author Share Posted December 9, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted December 11, 2021 Share Posted December 11, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted December 11, 2021 Share Posted December 11, 2021 That being said, Boris seems to be pretty corrupt... https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-this-the-real-reason-boris-introduced-covid-restrictions- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted December 11, 2021 Author Share Posted December 11, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Timur said: Hmm...I see no sources nor any sign that he is a journalist, nor any such image circulating on the internet. You should check your sources before you post such things. Now it just seems like you're desperately trying to defend the Tories by pointing anywhere but at them. Edit: Yeah the account looks like complete and utter bull the more I look at it. Really check your sources. Edited December 11, 2021 by Hestia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobs Posted December 11, 2021 Share Posted December 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Hestia said: Hmm...I see no sources nor any sign that he is a journalist, nor any such image circulating on the internet. You should check your sources before you post such things. Now it just seems like you're desperately trying to defend the Tories by pointing anywhere but at them. Edit: Yeah the account looks like complete and utter bull the more I look at it. Really check your sources. It looks like this was a scandal that occurred in April, old news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted December 11, 2021 Author Share Posted December 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Dobs said: It looks like this was a scandal that occurred in April, old news. It's not the same regardless. I believe the photo circulating (not the one the source he has I believe is mentioning) is not when the UK was under lockdown at all, since it was near the Labour conference date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted December 11, 2021 Share Posted December 11, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hestia said: Hmm...I see no sources nor any sign that he is a journalist, nor any such image circulating on the internet. You should check your sources before you post such things. Now it just seems like you're desperately trying to defend the Tories by pointing anywhere but at them. Edit: Yeah the account looks like complete and utter bull the more I look at it. Really check your sources. Well the post I posted below the tweet wasn't. Also, I knew who he was, so I didn't think him as fake news or anything. Maybe I was too trusting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Sked Anyhow, I don't think I'll vote Johnson if I were living in his district (lost my respect). All hail Count Binface. Edited December 11, 2021 by Timur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted December 11, 2021 Author Share Posted December 11, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Timur said: Well the post I posted below the tweet wasn't. Also, I knew who he was, so I didn't think him as fake news or anything. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Sked He was a UKIP candidate and founder. He had some pretty derogatory posts about Starmer in his history. Wonder why he would lie about the Labour leader... Edited December 11, 2021 by Hestia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted December 11, 2021 Share Posted December 11, 2021 (edited) Just now, Hestia said: He was a UKIP candidate and founder. He had some pretty derogatory posts about Starmer in his history. Wonder why he would lie about the Labour leader... UKIP before Nigel Farage was not Far-Right. After I stepped down to return to academic life, however, the party came under control of a preposterous mountebank named Nigel Farage, who reoriented it to the far right. The clause about a lack of prejudices was abolished and all sorts of nasty statements were made against blacks, Muslims and gays. Former members of the National Front were allowed to work for the party or become candidates. The party itself has deliquesced into a cult around Farage, whose electoral failure in 2015 has made him an object of scorn in the media and prompted his financial backers to desert him. Farage has become a convenient figure with which to frighten moderate voters about the consequences of fulfilling my party’s original mission—withdrawal from the European Union. - Alan Sked Edited December 11, 2021 by Timur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted December 11, 2021 Share Posted December 11, 2021 Just now, Timur said: UKIP before Nigel Farage was not Far-Right. After I stepped down to return to academic life, however, the party came under control of a preposterous mountebank named Nigel Farage, who reoriented it to the far right. The clause about a lack of prejudices was abolished and all sorts of nasty statements were made against blacks, Muslims and gays. Former members of the National Front were allowed to work for the party or become candidates. The party itself has deliquesced into a cult around Farage, whose electoral failure in 2015 has made him an object of scorn in the media and prompted his financial backers to desert him. Farage has become a convenient figure with which to frighten moderate voters about the consequences of fulfilling my party’s original mission—withdrawal from the European Union. - Alan Sked https://www.theguardian.com/profile/alan-sked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobs Posted December 11, 2021 Share Posted December 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Hestia said: He was a UKIP candidate and founder. He had some pretty derogatory posts about Starmer in his history. Wonder why he would lie about the Labour leader... He's still more ideologically aligned with Labour than the Tories if that is the point you're trying to make. He's Center-Left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted December 11, 2021 Author Share Posted December 11, 2021 Just now, Timur said: UKIP before Nigel Farage was not Far-Right. After I stepped down to return to academic life, however, the party came under control of a preposterous mountebank named Nigel Farage, who reoriented it to the far right. The clause about a lack of prejudices was abolished and all sorts of nasty statements were made against blacks, Muslims and gays. Former members of the National Front were allowed to work for the party or become candidates. The party itself has deliquesced into a cult around Farage, whose electoral failure in 2015 has made him an object of scorn in the media and prompted his financial backers to desert him. Farage has become a convenient figure with which to frighten moderate voters about the consequences of fulfilling my party’s original mission—withdrawal from the European Union. - Alan Sked Sure that's all true, I looked at it too. Still the point stands that he would obviously post negative stuff about Starmer to stir stuff up. Lies from an irrelevant politician hoping to make a splash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted December 11, 2021 Author Share Posted December 11, 2021 Just now, Dobs said: He's still more ideologically aligned with Labour than the Tories if that is the point you're trying to make. He's Center-Left. Who? Sked? Sure he might be, but just take a cursory look through his Twitter and you'll see plenty of evidence why he's posting crap about Starmer. It's pretty clear he doesn't like him. My point I'm trying to make is he's obviously trying to lie to gin up anger against him because he doesn't like him. Timur should've looked more carefully before assuming it was true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiw Posted December 11, 2021 Share Posted December 11, 2021 Let's put it like this: things just cannot be any worse. We as a nation have proved to be miserable failures. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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