You Rank the 21st Century Presidents

[vcczar]

new poll

[vcczar]

Obama 7 and Biden 5 (so far). Both Bush II and Trump get 0.

[MrPotatoTed]

As a flat count, Bush 9, Obama 8, Biden 7, Trump 0.  Didn't plan it that way, funny how it played out.  

Economic management:  Obama, hands down.  I think Bush could have done this if the timing had been different...he simply ran out of days between the recession and his exit from office.  But Obama earned the point.

Domestic accomplishments:  Obama easily, this is where he shined, but I also had to give a point to Bush for returning our nation to a sense of normalcy after 9/11.  

Diplomatic accomplishments:  Bush, hands down.  People will laugh, don't care.  "You're either with us or you're against us."  Overwhelmingly, especially in the early years, people were with us.  Obama tried and people liked him, but he was ineffective because there was no "big stick" waiting.  It was all just "speak softly." 

Military:  Bush, obviously.  

Justice:  Biden and Obama.  

Crisis Management:  Bush and Biden.  I considered Obama, but I already gave him his point in economic management, and his management of Arab Spring & Syria was abysmal.

Integrity and Conduct:  Bush, Obama, Biden.  All three are outstanding people with good intentions, even if they vary in their approach.

Executive Appointments:  Bush, Obama, Biden.  All three did a good job creating a diverse cabinet that could cover their blind spots.

Agenda:  I went with Biden, on the basis that he isn't facing the same hyper-level of partisan outrage that Bush, Obama, and Trump received.  Most people are generally on board with what he's going for -- people aren't generally fighting him just for the sake of fighting him.

Avoiding mistakes:  Bush, Obama, Biden.  Have all three made mistakes?  Of course.  But not 1/10th as terribly as Trump did.  

Party Leadership:  Bush and Obama.  I was proud to be a Republican under Bush.  I was proud to be a Democrat under Obama.  I'm not ashamed to be a Democrat under Biden -- but my partisanship is still more anti-Trump than pro-Biden.  Biden's fine, I have no problem with him, but I'm not following him to the ends of the earth like I did with both Bush and Obama.

Popularity:  Bush, Obama, Biden.  Sure, Bush's popularity dipped for a bit, but "he's not Trump and doesn't have much good to say about Trump" has helped his image tremendously since then.  Plus, the man spends his hours painting portraits of wounded soldiers and donates the money he receives from them.  

If I had to weigh one of these as more important than the other, I'd probably triple the points for crisis management, which would make the total Bush 11, Biden 9, Obama 8.  But I think I agree with my original ranking more, at least until Biden gets more time in office.





 

[DakotaHale]

Technically Bill Clinton is a 21st century president

[DakotaHale]

Bush: 1

Obama: 6

Trump: 3

Biden: 4

Since I vote based on economics, and I approved of Trumps economic policy the most, Trump is probably slightly underweight in this ranking. 

[vcczar]

11 minutes ago, DakotaHale said:

Technically Bill Clinton is a 21st century president

I know. I usually include him in 21st century polls, but I excluded Clinton for two reasons: 1) He only served one year in the 21st century and, 2) Clinton would like win because he'd have the most cross over support ideologically. 

Ideally, I'd include every president in this poll but it would take too long to type them all out. 

[DakotaHale]

Just now, Patine said:

Basing everyone on economics is so soulless, @DakotaHale. You've become a dedicated and zealous cultist of Mammon, and forsaken all truly human qualities, have you? 🤨

God wants you to be wealthy and successful (as long as it is your own and wasn’t stolen from someone). The problem with wealth starts once you get greedy and view money as an idol and turn away from the Lord. 

[Hestia]

23 minutes ago, DakotaHale said:

God wants you to be wealthy and successful (as long as it is your own and wasn’t stolen from someone). The problem with wealth starts once you get greedy and view money as an idol and turn away from the Lord. 

Out of all lessons in the Bible, to be wealthy I don't believe is one of them 😛 Not that it's inherently bad imo, just I don't think that's really a message in there. 

[DakotaHale]

21 minutes ago, Patine said:

I don't recall that appearing ANYWHERE in the Ministry of Christ, or the Ministries or Epistles of the Apostles. Every the mention of the issue takes a very dim view of the possessing of great wealth and the pursuit thereof, and praises austerity and giving up one's Earthly wealth to do good works, "without which faith is dead."

Just now, Hestia said:

Out of all lessons in the Bible, to be wealthy I don't believe is one of them 😛 Not that it's inherently bad imo, just I don't think that's really a message in there. 

The beautiful thing about the Bible is that many of the lessons are open to different interpretations. That’s why I go to Bible study every Sunday to see the differences between my views on the Bible compared to my elders. 

I would agree that hoarding wealth is greedy and unChristian. But I would also say that God wishes you to have a successful life, build wealth even, as long as you give a piece of the wealth to others (private charity/helping the disadvantaged is one of the recurring virtues in the Bible, something you need some wealth in order to do). 

I always liked the quote by Carnegie, “I spent the first half of my life making money and the second half of my life giving it away to do the most good and the least harm” (don’t necessarily endorse anything else he did, just liked the quote, and is what I intend to do with my wealth when I’m retired.)

In short, I think if you don’t idolize money and put the pursuit of wealth over your morals and relationship with God I think it’s not an immoral goal to have.

If you guys can find some verses on this topic I’d love to see them. 

[MrPotatoTed]

3 hours ago, vcczar said:

I know. I usually include him in 21st century polls, but I excluded Clinton for two reasons: 1) He only served one year in the 21st century and, 2) Clinton would like win because he'd have the most cross over support ideologically. 

Ideally, I'd include every president in this poll but it would take too long to type them all out. 

More cross over support than Biden?  I’d be surprised, but you could be right.

[MrPotatoTed]

1 hour ago, Patine said:

I don't recall that appearing ANYWHERE in the Ministry of Christ, or the Ministries or Epistles of the Apostles. Every the mention of the issue takes a very dim view of the possessing of great wealth and the pursuit thereof, and praises austerity and giving up one's Earthly wealth to do good works, "without which faith is dead."

 

1 hour ago, Hestia said:

Out of all lessons in the Bible, to be wealthy I don't believe is one of them 😛 Not that it's inherently bad imo, just I don't think that's really a message in there. 

 

1 hour ago, DakotaHale said:

The beautiful thing about the Bible is that many of the lessons are open to different interpretations. That’s why I go to Bible study every Sunday to see the differences between my views on the Bible compared to my elders. 

I would agree that hoarding wealth is greedy and unChristian. But I would also say that God wishes you to have a successful life, build wealth even, as long as you give a piece of the wealth to others (private charity/helping the disadvantaged is one of the recurring virtues in the Bible, something you need some wealth in order to do). 

I always liked the quote by Carnegie, “I spent the first half of my life making money and the second half of my life giving it away to do the most good and the least harm” (don’t necessarily endorse anything else he did, just liked the quote, and is what I intend to do with my wealth when I’m retired.)

In short, I think if you don’t idolize money and put the pursuit of wealth over your morals and relationship with God I think it’s not an immoral goal to have.

If you guys can find some verses on this topic I’d love to see them. 

“Go forth and multiply” was a clear reference to reinvesting financial dividends exponentially, no?

;c)

[DakotaHale]

1 minute ago, MrPotatoTed said:

 

 

“Go forth and multiply” was a clear reference to reinvesting financial dividends exponentially, no?

;c)

Me putting all of my paychecks into stonks

[MrPotatoTed]

16 minutes ago, Patine said:

No. That one was getting married and having children. 🙄

“Let he amongst you who is without a diversified retirement portfolio and a three month emergency fund cast the first stone”?

[vcczar]

1 hour ago, MrPotatoTed said:

More cross over support than Biden?  I’d be surprised, but you could be right.

Probably so. I remember I did a poll using Clinton, Bush II, Obama, and Trump in the 270Soft forum. It was mainly the same people responding. The questions was who was better overall, or something like that. Clinton won because he had support from right and left people on the forum. 

[Rezi]

Biden (So far) - 10 (This likely falls by the end of his presidency).

Obama - 9

Bush - 1

Trump - 1

 

Goes with my general beliefs that Biden is on the path to be the best President of the 21st Century, while Bush and Trump are both pretty equal near the bottom of all-time Presidencies.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Rezi

[DakotaHale]

56 minutes ago, Patine said:

 

 

What I fear, or at least suspect, is that Biden will at some time not long into his Presidency, cease to be the real executive power, de facto, and their will be a, "power behind the throne figure," (Harris, Pelosi, or someone else) - much like I believe there was strong evidence that Cheney was an eminence grease in the Bush Administration - or, at the very least, held very disproportionate power for an American Vice-President in a direct way - especially one not viewed as a potential heir-apparent.

@Patine is a right wing extremist!!!1!1!!!one

Lol jk. I also believe this to be true, for better or for worse. 

[vcczar]

14 hours ago, Patine said:

 

 

What I fear, or at least suspect, is that Biden will at some time not long into his Presidency, cease to be the real executive power, de facto, and their will be a, "power behind the throne figure," (Harris, Pelosi, or someone else) - much like I believe there was strong evidence that Cheney was an eminence grease in the Bush Administration - or, at the very least, held very disproportionate power for an American Vice-President in a direct way - especially one not viewed as a potential heir-apparent.

 

13 hours ago, DakotaHale said:

@Patine is a right wing extremist!!!1!1!!!one

Lol jk. I also believe this to be true, for better or for worse. 

Harris is no way comparable to Cheney, even if she does become the real power of the executive branch. She's probably less likely to be militaristic than Biden. She's probably more likely to be domestically liberal. The only real worry with her is regarding the Justice Department, which is her area of expertise. 

[DakotaHale]

1 hour ago, vcczar said:

 

Harris is no way comparable to Cheney, even if she does become the real power of the executive branch. She's probably less likely to be militaristic than Biden. She's probably more likely to be domestically liberal. The only real worry with her is regarding the Justice Department, which is her area of expertise. 

I always found it ironic how the Biden/Harris campaign capitalized on the BLM protests and ran on a campaign of ending systemic racism/corruption when both of them are textbook examples of systemic racism and corruption (especially Harris, Biden's gotten better).

[vcczar]

31 minutes ago, DakotaHale said:

I always found it ironic how the Biden/Harris campaign capitalized on the BLM protests and ran on a campaign of ending systemic racism/corruption when both of them are textbook examples of systemic racism and corruption (especially Harris, Biden's gotten better).

Yeah, so many things are politics, which makes it hard to actually get things done. Imagine what we could focus on if we could end systemic racism, find common ground on guns, abortion, etc., infrastructure, when territories can become states, voting laws etc. I think the common ground would be common sense if not for the superficial politics involved. A lot of things just allows allowing flexibility. 

One idea I had--I know extreme anti-abortion people would hate it--but it might alleviate some of the tension is to get the federal government somewhat out of the state issue of abortion, but with one exception. Federal property in the state could have Planned Parenthood services, including reasonable cause for an abortion. This Federal Property service would be dictated by the executive branch, which means a Republican could choose to amend the federal abortion services, so long as they hold the presidency. They can also temporarily shut it down, and put something else in its place if they wish. Democrats could then undo it when they're president. 

Basically, allowing these places on federal property in the states would allow states to do what they want on their property, while also deflating the argument by liberals and progressives that states should be forced to abide by liberal and progressive abortion laws. 

[Dobs]

I will tender my report cards soon.

[Dobs]

I'll start with the flat points and then move to the triplings and doublings

Economic Management: This is a relatively barren category as I can't recall a President who scores well on this front since George H. W. Bush. His son will come closest to scoring the point but TARP will unfortunately exclude him from all 3 points but will win him the point on a 2/3. Barack Obama's horrendous response to the Great Recession and ensuing weakest recovery in American history will make him ineligible. Donald Trump's Trade War and Protectionism will exclude him from the point but his agreement to Paul Ryan's tax cut bill is a positive in his favor. His record deficit spending will also hurt him immensely. Joe Biden is likely to fail as spectacularly as his predecessor given his penchant for extreme bouts of budgetary diarrhea already.

Flat

Bush: 1

Obama: 0

Trump: 0

Biden: 0

Adjusted

Bush: 2

Obama: 0

Trump: 1

Biden: 0

Domestic Achievements: George W. Bush did some good on the home front. However, his expansion of entitlement spending and the Patriot Act is going to disqualify him from the point. Barack Obama is also going to conspicuously fail for lack of anything decent. Trump will do the same and Biden has not impressed me thus far. Here, I consider heavily the extent to which each President respected the Constitutional balance of power, something which seems to get worse with each successive administration. 

Flat

Bush: 1

Obamna: 0

Trunk: 0

Bye-don: 0

Adjusted:

Bush: 3 (+1)

Obama: 0

Trump: 1 

Biden: 0

Diplomatic Achievements: This is where we begin to pick up again. Bush exemplified a leader of the free world. Domestically, he fell short, but diplomatically he excelled. Barack Obama did the same. Both of them will score the flat point for their performance here. Bush for leading the coalition of nations against an Axis of Evil and Barack Obama for his admirable relations with Europe and the laudable Iran Nuclear Deal. Trump will fail with prejudice for how he isolated allies and allowed enemies to play him like a fiddle. This is one of the most embarassing parts of his administration. Biden will score the point thus far due to the rapid repair of European relations we are already seeing but won't get all 3 until I see him take a stronger position on China.

Flat:

Busch: 2 (+1)

Obamna: 1 (+1)

Tronque: 0 

Bi-then: 1 (+1)

Adjusted:

Bush: 6 (+3)

Obama: 3 (+3)

Trump: 1

Biden: 2 (+2)

Military: George Bush will score major points on this front due to his engagements in Iraq and Afghanistan as necessary actions to secure global stability and freedom. This will earn him the point with gusto. Obama will not earn the point but won't go home empty-handed. His political withdraw from Iraq against the advice of all experts may have created ISIS, but he did do a lot in the way of ending the problem he created, so he gets a courtesy point for this. Trump presided over the end of ISIS, that's a point, but he is not eligible for the next two due to his assassination of Soleimani and his abandonment of the Kurds and withdraw from Syria. Biden looks to be on a good track to fix Trump's mistakes, but for now that will just be worth 2 points, not 3.

Flat:

Bush 3 (+1)

Obama: 1

Broom: 0

Biden: 1 (+1)

Adjusted

Bush: 9 (+3)

Obama: 4 (+1)

Trump: 2 (+1)

Biden: 4 (+2)

Justice: George W. Bush is going to score solid points here. He expanded the civil rights of immigrants and the unborn and appointed all-around solid picks to the Supreme Court. He will score the point and do rather well here. Obama passed the Fair Sentencing Act and made a good step towards criminal justice reform but otherwise fell flat with Supreme Court Appointees (Kagan is decent, Sotomayor not so). Trump has so much going against him but the absolutely incredible nature of Gorsuch and ACB as jurists has to score him at least 1 point here, but he doesn't get the full point. I do not expect much from Joe Biden here, for now it's a zero.

Flat: 

Bush: 4 (+1)

Obama: 1

Trumoo: 0

Biden: 1

Adjusted:

Bush: 12 (+3)

Obama: 5 (+1)

Trump: 3 (+1)

Biden: 4 

Crisis Management: George W. Bush did well in the wake of 9/11. He'll get the flat point but won't pass with flying colors, the Patriot Act is just going to be too much to surmount. Obama will not do well here, he'll get a point for his responses to a variety of smaller level crises but won't clear to 2 points. Trump will score -3 points as perhaps the worse crisis manager in America's history (worse than Buchanan), for actually encouraging insurrection against the United States when he lost. This will likely forever leave him the worst President in American history. Biden has not impressed me thus far but at least he's a steady hand through covid, that's a courtesy point.

Flat:

Bush: 5 (+1)

Obama: 1

Trumoo: 0

Biden: 1

Adjusted:

Bush: 14 (+2)

Obama: 6 (+1)

Trump: 0 (-3)

Biden: 5 (+1)

Integrity: Bush was a man of great character and integrity, you could just tell he cared about the American people and acted as a good man, even if I didn't always agree with what he was doing. Obama, on the other hand, not so much. Quite a few scandals came out of his administration and I never quite knew where he stood on some issues. Still though, a point for doing what was right for the country at some of the most important ventures, in most instances. I'm inclined to give Trump another negative but this is a purely positive scale and I won't break the rules, I'll leave it there. Joe will score the points, two of them.

Flat

Bush: 6 (+1)

Obama: 1

Trump: 0

Biden: 2 (+2)

Adjusted

Bush: 17 (+3)

Obama: 7 (+1)

Trump: 0

Biden: 7 (+2)

Executive Appointments: Bush did well, not exemplary, but well. Obama did fine and Biden appointed a few good apples. Trump, like Obama and Biden, appointed some winners but are mostly canceled out by the jokers.

Flat:

Bush: 7 (+1)

Obama: 1

Trump: 0

Biden: 2

Adjusted

Bush: 19 (+2)

Obama: 8(+1)

Trump: 1 (+1)

Biden: 8 (+1)

Persuasive: George Bush was always good at this, and for that I admired him. Obama too, for that matter. Biden and Trump, on the other hand, don't seem to have the same oomph. Thinking on their addresses, it is unlikely they'll achieve the same success. No one will win the point overall, but Bush and Obama will each get one adjusted point.

Flat: 

Bush: 7 

Obama: 1

Trump: 0

Biden: 2

Adjusted:

Bush: 20 (+1)

Obama: 9 (+1)

Trump: 1

Biden: 8

Avoiding Mistakes: Unfortunately, none of our Presidents could claim the win here. In fact, only Bush will get a courtesy point for avoiding more mistakes than he made. But this has been a rough issue for our Commanders-in-Chief of the 21st century.

Flat:

Bush: 7 

Obama: 1

Trump: 0

Biden: 2

Adjusted:

Bush: 21 (+1)

Obama: 9

Trump: 1

Biden: 8

Party Leadership: Once again, none of our Presidents were particularly blessed in this department. Bush would have done well had it not been for the limping to the end of his finish line that created a civil war in the party. Had he stuck to conservative principles on spending and the budget, I think the GOP would be in a much better place. Obama left his party, similarly, in open civil war over Sanity or Socialism. Sorry Barry. Donald Trump turned his party into a hostage of a blood-thirsty cult of personality filled with conspiracy theorists, this will yet again zap all his points. Biden continues to preside over a party cripplingly divided and he can't seem to make his mind up on moderation or full-throated liberalism/social democracy.

Flat:

Bush: 7 

Obama: 1

Trump: 0

Biden: 2

Adjusted:

Bush: 22 (+1)

Obama: 9

Trump: 0 (-1)

Biden: 8

Popularity: I change the definition of this to who has effectively leveraged whatever popularity they did have. Sometimes the right thing is the unpopular thing and far be it for me to ding a President for doing what is right, even when it's unpopular. That would actually earn points for me. I treat this category as two-fold "How did they use whatever popularity they did have and did they seek it at the expense of doing right?". Bush effectively leveraged his popularity while he had it to lead the nation through the War on Terror and will score the point. Obama did this to a lesser degree and won't score the full point but will not go home empty-handed. Trump will, naturally, do terribly here. He was unpopular for doing the wrong thing, the worst combination. I've yet to see Biden effectively leverage his popularity or refuse to seek it, so no points for him yet.

Flat:

Bush: 8 (+1)

Obama: 1

Trump: 0

Biden: 2

Adjusted: 

Bush: 23 (+1)

Obama: 10 (+1)

Trump: 0

Biden: 8

---

Overall:

George W. Bush

Flat: (8/12)

Adjusted: (23/36)

Bush will earn a about a B- or B overall as far as Presidents are concerned. He did well but had some serious short-comings. I will remember him fondly as a President more successful than not, but just barely.

Barack Obama

Flat: (1/12)

Adjusted: (10/36)

Obama was not the great Satan as many loons purported him to be. But that doesn't mean he was actively a good President. He wasn't. But he wasn't the worst we've had to offer. This performance will earn for him a D or D+, powered largely by his best qualities: his rhetoric and diplomacy.

Donald Trump:

Flat: (0/12)

Adjusted: (0/36)

Donald Trump has left broken and mangled a Country and Party which I love. He is the worst President this country has ever seen. Even his exit from office was so disgraceful so as not to elicit an ounce of joy. He will score an F-- with prejudice. May God ensure we never descend to the depths of hell to which we did to elect a President of his horrifying caliber again.

Joe Biden:

Flat: (2/12)

Adjusted: (8/36)

Joe is not impressive on his own, quite to the contrary in fact. I have grave concerns for our Republic going forward. But put next to Donald Trump he looks like Washington and Jefferson come back to save the nation- anyone would. Still, I predict he'll line up quite nicely or fall just short of his brother from another mother; President Obama. So far he's earned for himself a D but I wouldn't be surprised if that fell to a D-. We'll see.

(Note: that was just based on these categories. Normally I'd put Bush at a C+ or B-, Obama at a D+ or C-, Biden at a D+, and Trump retains his unceremonious F--.)

[Dobs]

1 minute ago, Patine said:

One little note that caught my eye early on I must question. You said that Obama had the, "weakest response to an economic crisis in American history." Have you forgotten about Martin van Buren, there?

Not the weakest response! I said weakest recovery, though even that should read “second weakest recovery”, so apologies for the typo.

Also, be nice the Little Magician, he’s trying his best! 😉 

[Dobs]

Just now, Patine said:

Although, as I'd often said to people back on 270soft, a U.S. President cannot be judged personally for the totality of the economic situation during their tenure in office, because FAR too many variables go into it, many far beyond the control of a U.S. President, and a crap tonne of which are completely under strict state or corporate perogative, other nations' jurisdiction, or just due to bad weather, natural disasters, agricultural or industrial accidents, spooking of investors and other random things like that. Even though voters like to punish or reward incumbents for the economy as though they, alone, had the responsibility, it's really not at all a fair judgement, when viewed rationally.

And on that we agree.

[Edouard]

Here are notations from prof Eddy

Economy /5
Civil Liberties /5
Foreign Managment /5
Personnality as leader /5

 

Joe Biden
Economy 4/5 : Good start, the US can be back on track with covid vaccination this year and the bail-out was needed at this time, however he should ease covid restrictions this summer
Civil Liberties 4/5 : Good start, wants to close Guantanamo, support extensions of rights and wants to adress police reforms, we will see how it goes
Foreign managment 4/5 : Once again the beginning is very appreciable, he put troops back home and is in favor of multilateralism while standing for democracy, he didn't backflip on the Trump Venezuelian position which is good. However bombings continue.
Personnality as leader 4,5/5 : As president Joe Biden really tries to appease America, his debate performance against Trump in the first presidential debate is maybe why I don't give 5, but overall he has been trying to unite and both parties can rely on working with him so far

Total of my notation : 16,5 the beginning of Joe Biden's term is solid, he is not only trying to appease the country, he maintained the unity in his party, now it is the beginning of this term

Donald Trump
Economy 4/5 : It would be 5 without the covid pandemic and his response. Bad points for Trump are that he reproduced mistakes of Bush, he cut taxes but raises military spendings so the debt is booming.
Civil Liberties 1/5 : Transgender rights went backwards during his term, if I give him a point it's only because he has been a moderate republican on the issue of civil liberties but his party is also changing on the issue
Foreign managment 3/5 : He made gains in term of trade wars for the US but ruined the diplomatic strenght of his country for 4 years during which occidental leaders managed together and let him alone. His isolationnist is absolutely fake he quadrupled the number of military strikes and threatened to use the nuclear weapon several times, insultes his allies like a child and did not get anything on the North Korea situation.
Personnality as leader 0/5 : Charlottesville, insults of black players, trans people, women, only stopped Capitol Riots because he risks himself to end up in jail if he didn't condemn. His party is now in civil war for years.

Total of my notation : 8/20 the economy was his only best spot, that's why covid ruined it and took his election chances down.

Barack Obama
Economy 3,5/5 : Good recovery but I think that Mitt Romney would have handled the recovery better than him (even if I would have voted Obama in 2012). He has decently managed the period.
Civil Liberties 4,5/5 : America of 2008 and America of 2016 are not the same. You can't campaign for same sex marriage in 2008 while it is a national consensus by 2016, however the Supreme Court did the job instead of Congress. The repeal of Don't Ask don't Tell was also a good thing as time has passed and it was no longer a consensus. Barack Obama presidency has really been a key moment for social progress. However, police reforms did not happen enough, and often his attempts to get social progress were took down in Congress.
Foreign Managment 2,5/5 : Barack Obama made a lot of controversial decisions, for Cuba, Syria, Iran, which let questions and divide the electorate as these divide me. Overall he has not been a bad president and well managed the ISIS crisis under his own period.
Personnality as leader 3,5/5 : Barack Obama is a cool president but not an uniter, in Congress he might look like more in an opposition behavior (such as republicans) than in the seeking of compromises. He has been a charismatic president, an incone and surely a great candidate for the democratic party, but he is not in the same kind of spirit than Joe Biden for example.

Total of my notation : 14/20 a good president overall compared to Trump but people were expecting a lot of him, probably too much. They expected that he solve racial injustices and even the Israelian conflict. He made a social revolution via Obamacare and has remained a strong leader through a difficult period, but compared to Bill Clinton I think that he accomplished less than him in his 8 years

George W Bush
Economy 3,5/5 : He did a pretty good job but same mistake than Trump. Cut taxs and raise military spendings, this is what halted the surplus that America had so far. His 2008 crisis gestion is not so bad to be honest, it could have been way worse. The federal reserve has also let inflation go too high before the crash.
Civil Liberties 1/5 : Patriot Act is a big malus plus he didn't do anything special for others rights and worse than this with the situation in Guantanamo
Foreign Managment 1,5/5 : I try to be apartisan, the Iraq intervention is a big mistake which led to the current situation with ISIS, but the Afghanistan intervention was justified even if he remained for too long, I also think that he should not have let the proofs in Iraq for so long but as we can see the bad was already done and pulling troops out of Iraq also let the door open for terrorism
Personnality as leader 3,5/5 : He has been incredible to heal the nation for 9/11 and remains someone who stood up for real republicanism, his party remained united under his leadership.

Total of my notation : 9,5/20 George W Bush is not the worst president ever, but he is responsible via his Foreign Policy to many of the current disorders in the Middle East. He has helped the US economic growth to rise quickly but has not been above the average during the economic crisis of 2008. As a leader he has remained a traditionnal republican, but as a person he is more humble and funny which has always been his strong point to connect with the electorate.

[ConservativeElector2]

10 hours ago, Dobs said:

I'll start with the flat points and then move to the triplings and doublings

Economic Management: This is a relatively barren category as I can't recall a President who scores well on this front since George H. W. Bush. His son will come closest to scoring the point but TARP will unfortunately exclude him from all 3 points but will win him the point on a 2/3. Barack Obama's horrendous response to the Great Recession and ensuing weakest recovery in American history will make him ineligible. Donald Trump's Trade War and Protectionism will exclude him from the point but his agreement to Paul Ryan's tax cut bill is a positive in his favor. His record deficit spending will also hurt him immensely. Joe Biden is likely to fail as spectacularly as his predecessor given his penchant for extreme bouts of budgetary diarrhea already.

Flat

Bush: 1

Obama: 0

Trump: 0

Biden: 0

Adjusted

Bush: 2

Obama: 0

Trump: 1

Biden: 0

Domestic Achievements: George W. Bush did some good on the home front. However, his expansion of entitlement spending and the Patriot Act is going to disqualify him from the point. Barack Obama is also going to conspicuously fail for lack of anything decent. Trump will do the same and Biden has not impressed me thus far. Here, I consider heavily the extent to which each President respected the Constitutional balance of power, something which seems to get worse with each successive administration. 

Flat

Bush: 1

Obamna: 0

Trunk: 0

Bye-don: 0

Adjusted:

Bush: 3 (+1)

Obama: 0

Trump: 1 

Biden: 0

Diplomatic Achievements: This is where we begin to pick up again. Bush exemplified a leader of the free world. Domestically, he fell short, but diplomatically he excelled. Barack Obama did the same. Both of them will score the flat point for their performance here. Bush for leading the coalition of nations against an Axis of Evil and Barack Obama for his admirable relations with Europe and the laudable Iran Nuclear Deal. Trump will fail with prejudice for how he isolated allies and allowed enemies to play him like a fiddle. This is one of the most embarassing parts of his administration. Biden will score the point thus far due to the rapid repair of European relations we are already seeing but won't get all 3 until I see him take a stronger position on China.

Flat:

Busch: 2 (+1)

Obamna: 1 (+1)

Tronque: 0 

Bi-then: 1 (+1)

Adjusted:

Bush: 6 (+3)

Obama: 3 (+3)

Trump: 1

Biden: 2 (+2)

Military: George Bush will score major points on this front due to his engagements in Iraq and Afghanistan as necessary actions to secure global stability and freedom. This will earn him the point with gusto. Obama will not earn the point but won't go home empty-handed. His political withdraw from Iraq against the advice of all experts may have created ISIS, but he did do a lot in the way of ending the problem he created, so he gets a courtesy point for this. Trump presided over the end of ISIS, that's a point, but he is not eligible for the next two due to his assassination of Soleimani and his abandonment of the Kurds and withdraw from Syria. Biden looks to be on a good track to fix Trump's mistakes, but for now that will just be worth 2 points, not 3.

Flat:

Bush 3 (+1)

Obama: 1

Broom: 0

Biden: 1 (+1)

Adjusted

Bush: 9 (+3)

Obama: 4 (+1)

Trump: 2 (+1)

Biden: 4 (+2)

Justice: George W. Bush is going to score solid points here. He expanded the civil rights of immigrants and the unborn and appointed all-around solid picks to the Supreme Court. He will score the point and do rather well here. Obama passed the Fair Sentencing Act and made a good step towards criminal justice reform but otherwise fell flat with Supreme Court Appointees (Kagan is decent, Sotomayor not so). Trump has so much going against him but the absolutely incredible nature of Gorsuch and ACB as jurists has to score him at least 1 point here, but he doesn't get the full point. I do not expect much from Joe Biden here, for now it's a zero.

Flat: 

Bush: 4 (+1)

Obama: 1

Trumoo: 0

Biden: 1

Adjusted:

Bush: 12 (+3)

Obama: 5 (+1)

Trump: 3 (+1)

Biden: 4 

Crisis Management: George W. Bush did well in the wake of 9/11. He'll get the flat point but won't pass with flying colors, the Patriot Act is just going to be too much to surmount. Obama will not do well here, he'll get a point for his responses to a variety of smaller level crises but won't clear to 2 points. Trump will score -3 points as perhaps the worse crisis manager in America's history (worse than Buchanan), for actually encouraging insurrection against the United States when he lost. This will likely forever leave him the worst President in American history. Biden has not impressed me thus far but at least he's a steady hand through covid, that's a courtesy point.

Flat:

Bush: 5 (+1)

Obama: 1

Trumoo: 0

Biden: 1

Adjusted:

Bush: 14 (+2)

Obama: 6 (+1)

Trump: 0 (-3)

Biden: 5 (+1)

Integrity: Bush was a man of great character and integrity, you could just tell he cared about the American people and acted as a good man, even if I didn't always agree with what he was doing. Obama, on the other hand, not so much. Quite a few scandals came out of his administration and I never quite knew where he stood on some issues. Still though, a point for doing what was right for the country at some of the most important ventures, in most instances. I'm inclined to give Trump another negative but this is a purely positive scale and I won't break the rules, I'll leave it there. Joe will score the points, two of them.

Flat

Bush: 6 (+1)

Obama: 1

Trump: 0

Biden: 2 (+2)

Adjusted

Bush: 17 (+3)

Obama: 7 (+1)

Trump: 0

Biden: 7 (+2)

Executive Appointments: Bush did well, not exemplary, but well. Obama did fine and Biden appointed a few good apples. Trump, like Obama and Biden, appointed some winners but are mostly canceled out by the jokers.

Flat:

Bush: 7 (+1)

Obama: 1

Trump: 0

Biden: 2

Adjusted

Bush: 19 (+2)

Obama: 8(+1)

Trump: 1 (+1)

Biden: 8 (+1)

Persuasive: George Bush was always good at this, and for that I admired him. Obama too, for that matter. Biden and Trump, on the other hand, don't seem to have the same oomph. Thinking on their addresses, it is unlikely they'll achieve the same success. No one will win the point overall, but Bush and Obama will each get one adjusted point.

Flat: 

Bush: 7 

Obama: 1

Trump: 0

Biden: 2

Adjusted:

Bush: 20 (+1)

Obama: 9 (+1)

Trump: 1

Biden: 8

Avoiding Mistakes: Unfortunately, none of our Presidents could claim the win here. In fact, only Bush will get a courtesy point for avoiding more mistakes than he made. But this has been a rough issue for our Commanders-in-Chief of the 21st century.

Flat:

Bush: 7 

Obama: 1

Trump: 0

Biden: 2

Adjusted:

Bush: 21 (+1)

Obama: 9

Trump: 1

Biden: 8

Party Leadership: Once again, none of our Presidents were particularly blessed in this department. Bush would have done well had it not been for the limping to the end of his finish line that created a civil war in the party. Had he stuck to conservative principles on spending and the budget, I think the GOP would be in a much better place. Obama left his party, similarly, in open civil war over Sanity or Socialism. Sorry Barry. Donald Trump turned his party into a hostage of a blood-thirsty cult of personality filled with conspiracy theorists, this will yet again zap all his points. Biden continues to preside over a party cripplingly divided and he can't seem to make his mind up on moderation or full-throated liberalism/social democracy.

Flat:

Bush: 7 

Obama: 1

Trump: 0

Biden: 2

Adjusted:

Bush: 22 (+1)

Obama: 9

Trump: 0 (-1)

Biden: 8

Popularity: I change the definition of this to who has effectively leveraged whatever popularity they did have. Sometimes the right thing is the unpopular thing and far be it for me to ding a President for doing what is right, even when it's unpopular. That would actually earn points for me. I treat this category as two-fold "How did they use whatever popularity they did have and did they seek it at the expense of doing right?". Bush effectively leveraged his popularity while he had it to lead the nation through the War on Terror and will score the point. Obama did this to a lesser degree and won't score the full point but will not go home empty-handed. Trump will, naturally, do terribly here. He was unpopular for doing the wrong thing, the worst combination. I've yet to see Biden effectively leverage his popularity or refuse to seek it, so no points for him yet.

Flat:

Bush: 8 (+1)

Obama: 1

Trump: 0

Biden: 2

Adjusted: 

Bush: 23 (+1)

Obama: 10 (+1)

Trump: 0

Biden: 8

---

Overall:

George W. Bush

Flat: (8/12)

Adjusted: (23/36)

Bush will earn a about a B- or B overall as far as Presidents are concerned. He did well but had some serious short-comings. I will remember him fondly as a President more successful than not, but just barely.

Barack Obama

Flat: (1/12)

Adjusted: (10/36)

Obama was not the great Satan as many loons purported him to be. But that doesn't mean he was actively a good President. He wasn't. But he wasn't the worst we've had to offer. This performance will earn for him a D or D+, powered largely by his best qualities: his rhetoric and diplomacy.

Donald Trump:

Flat: (0/12)

Adjusted: (0/36)

Donald Trump has left broken and mangled a Country and Party which I love. He is the worst President this country has ever seen. Even his exit from office was so disgraceful so as not to elicit an ounce of joy. He will score an F-- with prejudice. May God ensure we never descend to the depths of hell to which we did to elect a President of his horrifying caliber again.

Joe Biden:

Flat: (2/12)

Adjusted: (8/36)

Joe is not impressive on his own, quite to the contrary in fact. I have grave concerns for our Republic going forward. But put next to Donald Trump he looks like Washington and Jefferson come back to save the nation- anyone would. Still, I predict he'll line up quite nicely or fall just short of his brother from another mother; President Obama. So far he's earned for himself a D but I wouldn't be surprised if that fell to a D-. We'll see.

(Note: that was just based on these categories. Normally I'd put Bush at a C+ or B-, Obama at a D+ or C-, Biden at a D+, and Trump retains his unceremonious F--.)

Thanks for a very detailed analysis. I read it with great joy. I agree with many points stressed and disagree with a few, but overall it's a great analysis.