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AMPU VP's and VP Noms who were never President, Pres Nominees, or Strong Candidates


vcczar

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Spiro T Agnew

Moderate (eventually became more conservative)

1 command, 1 governing, 1 military

Business as initial expertise

Efficient, Manipulative, Pliable, Controversial, Cop

Notes: Historically, only the second VP ever to resign (Calhoun resigned over disagreement with Jackson's administration), but he is the first to resign because of scandal. Agnew likely would have been a better president than Ford, executively speaking. He would have excelled in a judicial crisis; however, he's susceptible to being influenced. Best as a governor, where he'd excel.

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Alben W Barkley

Liberal

1 command, 2 legislative, 1 governing

Justice as initial expertise

Kingmaker, Likable, Bookkeeper

Notes: Best for legislature but not bad for president either. Sort of like a Joe Biden with an ability with numbers. Barkley would have likely been a good president in an economic crisis. As he was from KY, VP was the closest he'd come to the presidency. He wanted to be president after Truman declined another term, and expected to be the nominee, but he was so old that delegates started looking elsewhere, settling on Stevenson. One of KY's great politicians. 

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Lloyd Bentsen

Moderate

1 command, 2 legislative, 1 judicial, 1 military, 1 admin

Military as initial expertise

Debater, Bookkeeper

Notes: Best for legislature; however, would have likely made a decent president had Dukakis won in 1988 and then been unable to finish his term. Bentsen is the type of person that would have risen to the occasion in an economic crisis. However, he hasn't any quality that will help him get elected. His best qualities are probably his range. He has 5 of the 6 abilities. 

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Francis P Blair Jr

Blair Dynasty

Moderate

1 command, 1 legislative, 1 military, 1 admin

Justice as initial expertise

Frail, Pliable, Propagandist, Illicit, Southern Unionist

Notes: Great range. Best for legislative. A middling choice for Pres or VP. Historically, he was Horatio Seymour's 1868 VP nominee--one of the weakest tickets in history. However, few people wanted to compete to be on a ticket destined for a landslide defeat. In desperation, Blair appealed to racism to get votes. This has tarnished his legacy, which had been previously strong, considering he was a Southern Unionist. He had a paralyzing stroke in 1872. 

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Charles W Bryan

Bryan dynasty

LW Pop

1 command, 1 legis, 1 gov

Business expertise

Reformist

Propagandist, uncharismatic, provincial, passive

Notes: Brother of William Jennings Bryan. Less electable overall. Best for governor. Historically, lost way more elections than he ever won. Lacked the impressiveness of his older brother. Makes sense as VP if one is attempting to shore up support for a specific ideology. His "provincial" trait is helpful in gaining support for his region. He was a member of arguably the least exciting ticket in the history of the Democratic Party, which had UK Amb John W. Davis--the last conservative Democratic nominee--at the top of the ticket in 1924.

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Nicholas M Butler

Conservative

1 command, 1 admin

Education as initial expertise

Nationalist

Disharmonious, Egghead, Naive Strategiest, Delegator 

Notes: VP might actually be his best spot as he'd help win the crucial state of NY. Outside of that, he's not really a strong politician. Just make sure the president on the ticket isn't a threat to die. He would not make a very good president if he rose to the office. Historically, Butler was president of Columbia University for over four decades (only a decade by the time he was Taft's VP nom in 1912). He was part of Teddy Roosevelt's circle of friends, which might be why he was selected as VP. He was likely anti-Semitic and probably had some fascist tendencies too. He was known for being arrogant too. It's hard to understand why he was a VP choice, aside from his friendship with TR. Another clue might be that he had been a GOP delegate since 1888 and his selection as VP might have helped secure Taft's nomination over Roosevelt in 1912. He's continue to be a GOP delegate until 1936. In 1916, he supported the legendary cabinet-member Elihu Root for president.  In 1920, Butler tried to run for president on his own, but he went no where. Interestingly, Teddy Roosevelt, Elihu Root, and Butler all won the Nobel Peace Prize in various years. Butler won his for advocating isolationism (i.e. "peace" at the time) and international education. 

 

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William O Butler

Moderate

1 command, 1 legislative, 1 military

Military as initial expertise

Integrity, Hale

Notes: Best for military. No real flaws, but hasn't any strengths to break out as a star. Good VP choice if you're wanting to win KY. Historically, he was Lewis Cass's VP. They were competing against General Zachary Taylor and thought adding another Mexican War General would help the ticket. It was actually a double military ticket as Cass was a War of 1812 general. Despite being from KY, Butler opposed slavery and was pro-Union. 

 

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Dick Cheney

Cheney dynasty

Conservative

1 command, 1 legis, 1 admin

Economics as initial expertise

Expansionist

Kingmaker, Manipulative, Uncharismatic, Unlikable, Geostrategist, Illicit, Domestic Apathy

Notes: Best as legislator. If becomes president, you better be at war. Would fail in a domestic crisis. Not very electable. Actually best as a backroom politician but Wyoming isn't a very helpful place to be for that. 

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On 10/25/2021 at 1:38 PM, vcczar said:

Lloyd Bentsen

Moderate

1 command, 2 legislative, 1 judicial, 1 military, 1 admin

Military as initial expertise

Debater, Bookkeeper

I am surprised Bentsen hasn't got Likeable. You yourself stated that the Dems nominated the likeable Bentsen instead of the more charismatic Jesse Jackson in '88.

On 10/24/2021 at 9:46 PM, vcczar said:

Alben W Barkley

He wanted to be president after Truman declined another term, and expected to be the nominee, but he was so old that delegates started looking elsewhere, settling on Stevenson. One of KY's great politicians. 

Do you think Barkley would have done better than Stevenson against Eisenhower?

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2 hours ago, ConservativeElector2 said:

Do you think Barkley would have done better than Stevenson against Eisenhower?

No. Stevenson had more urban appeal which was crucial considering urban centers were competitive then. Barkley wasn’t going to win any states that were already going to go Democrat. I don’t think any Democrat could have won in 1952 against Eisenhower or in 1956. You’d probably need another WWII hero like George C. Marshall to make it close. 

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George Clinton

Clinton Dynasty

Moderate (really hard to classify--in some ways populist too)

1 command, 1 legislative, 3 governing, 1 military

Justice as initial expertise

Iron Fist, Leadership, Provincial, Bookkeeper, Domestic Warrior, 

Notes: Ideal for both governor and faction leader. Better VP than President because of "Provincial." Will likely win you NY if he's on the ticket, unless facing another ticket with NY. Would make a great crisis president. Historically, the longest serving governor in the history of NY. Served during the Rev War and through some of Washington's presidency. Was the first Jeffersonian candidate for president but had little appeal outside his state. Jefferson opted to replace his VP Burr with Clinton during Jefferson's 2nd term. Clinton was kept on as VP by Madison, but died in office. It's hard to find an analogy for Clinton today. The closest analogy would be if Andrew Cuomo served as governor for over two decades, ran for president a few times, and then became VP. Clinton dominated NY state, although Burr was the leading figure in NYC. They battled Hamilton and Jay for NY and usually won. Within a ten year span, Burr killed Hamilton, which helped kill Burr's career, and Jay retired and Clinton died. This left a huge power vacuum, which was filled by nephew DeWitt Clinton , who led one faction of NY Jeffersonian Republicans, against the Tompkins/Van Buren wing of the Jeffersonian Republicans. The nephew's wing centered more on NYC and had adopted several Federalist tenants, while Tompkins and Van Buren were based in the state capital of Albany. When both Tompkins and DeWitt Clinton died early, Van Buren became paramount in NY. The dwindling Federalists were led by Rufus King after Hamilton's death and Jay's retirement. NY politics is almost as interesting as US politics. It's really where factionalism and party politics began.

 

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Schuyler Colfax

Colfax Dynasty

Liberal

1 command, 2 legislative

Media as initial expertise

Civil Rights

Manipulative, Propagandist, Controversial, Micromanager

Can be independent

Notes: Historically, Grant's first VP. Grant kicked him off the ticket for two reasons 1) He was scandal-prone and 2) He was a little pushy in trying to get Grant to either run for president or decline to run, so that he could run for president instead. This latter was more of a reason than the scandal. Best for legislative, where he served as Speaker, historically. As a VP, he helps secure IN but adds little else. As president, he is likely to fall to scandal and get in his own way by micromanaging others. A deadly combination. However, with a legislative ability, he might do well in helping push through legislation. 

 

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Charles Curtis

Moderate

1 command 2 legis

Business as initial expertise

Civil Rights

Egghead, Integrity, Likable, Pliable, Uncharismatic, Lackey, Harmonious, Passive

Notes: Historically, a leader in the Senate, VP for Hoover, and the first VP of Native American descent. Kind of a perfect VP for Hoover, but had he become president, he would have likely been something of a puppet, and would have had little boldness to his presidency, especially during a time of trouble. Best to keep him in the US Senate.

 

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I'm not going to have time to finish this thread, and it some of the components might change anyway. I'm going to be busy with kickstarter stuff and in filling in the descriptions of events and such. I'll also probably be changing some of them a bit. Lots and lots of double-checking. 

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