vcczar Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 #28: Norm Van Brocklin Primary team: Los Angeles Rams & Philadelphia Eagles Born in South Dakota College: Oregon 4th round pick in 1949 1x MVP 1x First Team All-Pro 2x Champion, but he shared QB duties and was the secondary passer in his first victory. 4x top three in AYA, leading the league 3x 3x top three in TD%, leading the league once 2x top three in QB Rating, leading the league once 2x top three in comp %, leading the league once 2x top three in Low INT% 1x led league in yards It's crazy to think that he was definitely a top 20 QB of all time when I started watching football as a kid. He's been pushed back only because of the sheer number of great QBs in the last 30 years. He could have been a 1st round pick, but there was some confusion over whether or not he was going to play football. He rarely played his rookie season for the Rams, who already had future HoFer Bob Waterfield at QB. Next year, in 1950, Van Brocklin and Waterfield took turns leading the office, which was something that sometimes occurred prior to the 1960s, although the Cowboys did it in the early 1970s for part of a season. Sharing duties, both QBs finished #1 and #2 in QB Rating and went to the Championship, but they lost. In 1951, Van Brocklin shared duties again with Waterfield and they went to Championship again, only Waterfield threw the ball about 75% of the time, but Van Brocklin threw the game-winning TD. He didn't become the full-time starter until 1953 as Waterfield had finally retired. In 1955, Van Brocklin took the Rams to another Championship, but threw 6 INTs in the loss. From 1955 to 1959, Van Brocklin seemed to be on the decline. Van Brocklin had initially retired after 1957 because he seemed to have lost it and couldn't win games. However, he changed his mind and accepted a trade to the Eagles. His first year with the Eagles was middling, but his third season (and final season of his career) was great as he won the Championship, earned the MVP award for the season and scored 10 regular season wins. He retired on top. He was also one of the top punters in the league during his time. Van Brocklin still holds the record for 554 passing yards in a single game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 #27: John Brodie Primary team: San Francisco 49ers Born in California College: Stanford 3rd overall pick in 1957 1x MVP 1x First Team All-Pro 6x top three in Comp%, including leading the league twice. 3x led the league in yards 2x Low INT%, once leading the league 2x TD% 2x leading the league in TDs 2x top three in AYA 2x top three in QB Rating, leading the league once. Arguably the most accurate passer of his time, but also one of those great QBs that played on mediocre teams. He was also one of the greatest at all times in avoiding sacks as he had the lowest sack% in five seasons. He was drafted in 1957, but he wasn't the full-time starter until 1960, and he wasn't any good until 1965 when he was about 30. From 1965 to 1971, he was one of the best QBs in the league, winning the MVP once and in the MVP running two other times. He got close to the Super Bowl twice, but lost in the NFC Championship in these back to back years (1970-1971). He retired after 1973, following a subpar season. Brodie's ability to both avoid sacks and complete passes, while churning out yards is quite impressive. Strangely, he did have an issue with interceptions, as he had three 20+ INT seasns, in which he led the league once. His 6 seasons of being top 3 in Comp% is near the very top in this category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 #26: Ben Roethlisberger Primary team: Pittsburgh Steelers Born in Ohio College: Miami (OH) 11th overall in 2004 3x SB Appearances (2 wins and 1 loss) 4x won 75% of the team's games. 2x top three in TD%, once leading the league. 2x led league in yards 2x top three in AYA, once leading the league I remember when he was drafted, I was predicting that the would outperform the other rookies, Eli Manning, Philip Rivers, and JP Losman, in his career. In most ways I was correct. Rivers was probably statistically more efficient, but Roethlisberger had both enough efficiency and more big wins. As a rookie, he was originally a 3rd string QB but QB's Charlie Batch and Tommy Maddox were both injured by Week 3 and the 22-year-old Roethlisberger took over as starter, a position he held for 18 years. As a rookie, he went 13-0, but he lost in the AFC Championship to Tom Brady and the Patriots. He won his first Super Bowl his 2nd season, in 2005. In 2008, he won his 2nd Super Bowl with a last moment TD against Kurt Warner and the Cardinals. I remember both Super Bowl wins well, but I was the most impressed with this second won as I was certain Warner's TD pass to Larry Fitzgerald was the game-winner. Two years later, in 2010, Roethlisberger was back in the SB, but the Packers won the game. He didn't get close to making the Super Bowl again until 2016 when he lost to Brady and the Patriots again, 12 years after their last AFC Championship matchup. Baring the one season in which he played only two games because of injury, Roethlisberger never had a losing season and won 12+ games on 4 occasions. While he didn't win 4 SBs as Terry Bradshaw did, he did the Steelers legacy proud. Roethlisberger did have some flaws, however. He led the league in sacks or yards lost to sacks for two seasons, he led the league in INTs twice, and he led in fumbles once. He retired with 554 sacks, which is the NFL Record, although Tom Brady is currently within 9 sacks of this record. Will tag @MrPotatoTed since he's a fan of Roethlisberger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPotatoTed Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 16 minutes ago, vcczar said: #26: Ben Roethlisberger Primary team: Pittsburgh Steelers Born in Ohio College: Miami (OH) 11th overall in 2004 3x SB Appearances (2 wins and 1 loss) 4x won 75% of the team's games. 2x top three in TD%, once leading the league. 2x led league in yards 2x top three in AYA, once leading the league I remember when he was drafted, I was predicting that the would outperform the other rookies, Eli Manning, Philip Rivers, and JP Losman, in his career. In most ways I was correct. Rivers was probably statistically more efficient, but Roethlisberger had both enough efficiency and more big wins. As a rookie, he was originally a 3rd string QB but QB's Charlie Batch and Tommy Maddox were both injured by Week 3 and the 22-year-old Roethlisberger took over as starter, a position he held for 18 years. As a rookie, he went 13-0, but he lost in the AFC Championship to Tom Brady and the Patriots. He won his first Super Bowl his 2nd season, in 2005. In 2008, he won his 2nd Super Bowl with a last moment TD against Kurt Warner and the Cardinals. I remember both Super Bowl wins well, but I was the most impressed with this second won as I was certain Warner's TD pass to Larry Fitzgerald was the game-winner. Two years later, in 2010, Roethlisberger was back in the SB, but the Packers won the game. He didn't get close to making the Super Bowl again until 2016 when he lost to Brady and the Patriots again, 12 years after their last AFC Championship matchup. Baring the one season in which he played only two games because of injury, Roethlisberger never had a losing season and won 12+ games on 4 occasions. While he didn't win 4 SBs as Terry Bradshaw did, he did the Steelers legacy proud. Roethlisberger did have some flaws, however. He led the league in sacks or yards lost to sacks for two seasons, he led the league in INTs twice, and he led in fumbles once. He retired with 554 sacks, which is the NFL Record, although Tom Brady is currently within 9 sacks of this record. Will tag @MrPotatoTed since he's a fan of Roethlisberger. Big Ben’s legacy was his ability to keep a play alive. He rarely had a good offensive line, but it didn’t matter. His size allowed him to shake off tacklers and stay on his feet long enough for one of our high speed receivers to break free from their defender and get open for a huge gain. Plays that would have been negative yardage sacks for any other team would turn into 60+ yard touchdowns for us, thanks to Ben’s ability to stay on his feet long enough to improvise something amazing. We may never see someone like that again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 10 minutes ago, MrPotatoTed said: Big Ben’s legacy was his ability to keep a play alive. He rarely had a good offensive line, but it didn’t matter. His size allowed him to shake off tacklers and stay on his feet long enough for one of our high speed receivers to break free from their defender and get open for a huge gain. Plays that would have been negative yardage sacks for any other team would turn into 60+ yard touchdowns for us, thanks to Ben’s ability to stay on his feet long enough to improvise something amazing. We may never see someone like that again. Yeah, even though he led in getting sacked, he's 4th in yards lost to sacks: 554 for -3,677 for Roethlisberger 485 for -4,342 for Tarkenton 545 for -3,433 for Brady His loss yard % isn't as good as Brady's, but it's a lot better than Tarkenton, Krieg, and Elway who have more yards lost on sacks than him and have fewer sacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvikings1 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 23 hours ago, vcczar said: #30: Patrick Mahomes Primary team: Kansas City Chiefs Born in Texas College: Texas Tech 10th overall pick in 2017 1x MVP 1x First Team All-Pro 2x SB appearances (1 win, 1 loss) and 1 SB MVP 3x won 75% of team's games 2x top three in Low INT% 1x led league in TDs Mahomes is probably the best QB under 30 and he's soaring up this list with no signs of a decline. He reminds me of Aaron Rodgers in the sense that both can move around a flick a perfect pass, seemingly at will. However, Mahomes seems to put up more points and wins. Mahomes was a back up to Alex Smith during his rookie season, and I remember a Chiefs fan who told me that he felt Mahomes was unneccessary since the team already had Alex Smith. The next year, Smith was traded and Mahomes tossed 50 TDs in his first season as the starter and the rest is history. So far, Mahomes is yet to win fewer than 11 games in a season as the team's opening day starter. After two weeks in the 2022 season, he is 2-0 and has 7 TDs. He's not slowing down. At only 26 years of age, we could see another decade of elite performance. Mahomes has definitely benefitted from a very good coaching system with Andy Reid (the difference between him and Rodgers). Management/coaching can make all the difference, even for the greatest players 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark2 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 On 9/16/2022 at 12:15 PM, vcczar said: #33: Jim Kelly Primary team: Buffalo Bills Born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania College: Miami (FL) 14th overall pick in 1983 1x First Team All-Pro 4x Super Bowl Appearances (lost all of them) 4x won 75% of the team's games 3x top three in TD%, leading the league twice. 2x top three in QB Rating, once leading the league 1x led the league in Comp% 1x led league in TDs Jim Kelly was one of the most successful QBs during the time that I started watching football, but he wasn't as flashy as Montana, Elway, Marino, Esiason, Moon, etc. Kelly was part of the celebrated 1983 draft class, which included Elway, Marino, O'Brien, Eason, and Blackledge -- all 1st round QBs with Kelly. Kelly was drafted by the Bills, but he listed three cold-weather teams--including the Bills--as teams he would not play for, so he opted to play for a hot-weather team in the new upstart league, the USFL instead. He didn't play any football in 1983, but in his first USFL season in 1984, he was named MVP after throwing for 5,219 yards and 44 TDs (18 game seasons). The next season he threw for 39 TDs. He expected to play 1986 in the USFL but the league folded. The Bill still retained his rights, so he accepted the starting role on that team, cold weather and all. He held the starting job for the Bills for the entirety of his NFL career. He went to four Super Bowls from 1990-1993 as he led the famous "no huddle offense." His final three seasons were not as successful, but his team remained competitive. His final season, in 1996, was statistically his worst as he battled injuried, threw 19 INTs to only 14 TDs, and so he retired. He strongly considered joining the Ravens in 1998 to play another but opted against it. Kelly is clearly the greatest Bills QB, although Josh Allen has potential to surpass him. ITS ABOUT THE BILLS BABY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 #25: Ken Stabler Primary team: Oakland Raiders Born in Alabama College: Alabama 2nd round pick in 1968 x1 MVP x1 First Team All-Pro x1 Super Bowl Champion x4 top three in comp%, twice leading the league x3 top three in TD%, twice leading the league x2 won 75% of team's games x2 led league in TDs x2 top three in AYA x2 top three in QB Rating, once leading the league I always thought it was odd that someone as immobile as Stabler (fewer than 100 career rushing yards) was named the Snake, but maybe that's because snakes don't have legs. He didn't get much playing time until his 4th season in 1973 as he was backing up Lamonica. From 1973-1979, Stabler led the Raiders to 10+ win seasons four times, to five AFC Championship games (winning only once)) and winning one Super Bowl, following his only AFC Championship victory. After 1979, Stabler was on the Houston Oilers and New Orleans Saints until his retirement at the end of 1984. While he did win 11 games in 1980 for the Oilers, he was statistically bad to below average in his final 5 seasons, throwing 44 TDs to 79 INTs in these years. Stabler actually had interception issues for much of his career, as he threw 20+ INTs in five seasons (a high of 30), although he never led the league in INTs. Stabler, however, can boast a record of 96-49-1 and 5 AFC Championship appearances and 1 SB victory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 #24: Bob Griese Primary team: Miami Dolphins Born in Indiana College: Purdue 4th overall in 1967 x2 First Team All-Pro x3 Super Bowl Appearance (winning 2 and losing 1) x4 top three in comp%, leading the league once x3 top three in TD%, leading the league twice x2 top three in AYA x1 led league in TDs x1 led the league in QB Rating Griese started immediately as a rookie and was the primary starter for all but his final season during his 14-year career. In 1971, he took the Dolphins to the SB but they lost to the Dallas Cowboys. The next season, in 1972, Griese was tackled by Deacon Jones in game 5 and broke several bones, knocking Griese out of the regular season. Fortunately, Earl Morrall was the backup QB and together they had a perfect season (Griese 5-0 and Morrall 9-0), as they went on to win the Super Bowl with Griese starting in that game. Next season, Griese won 12 games and won another Super Bowl. In 1980, he lost the starting job to a younger QB. Griese's 92-56-3 career record is quite impressive. From 1970-1975 Griese-led Dolphins were almost guaranteed to win in the regular season. He wasn't as flashy as many QBs in the 1970s, but he was possibly the most reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 #23: YA Tittle Primary team: San Francisco 49ers and New York Giants Born in Texas College: LSU 6th overall pick in 1948 3x First Team All-Pro 8x top three in comp%, twice leading the league 4x top three in Low INT%, twice leading the league 4x top three in AYA, twice leading the league 3x top three in QB Rating, once leading the league 3x top three in TD%, leading the league all three times 3x led league in TDs Some consider Tittle to be the greatest QB to never win a Championship. He was drafted by the Lions in the NFL, but he opted to join the Colts in the rival AAFC league (their stats count as NFL stats), and was that league's rookie of the year. His next two seasons were mediocre. In 1951, he jumped to the 49ers, where he remained through the 1960 season, but he wasn't the full-time starter until midway through 1952. It wasn't until 1957 that Tittle got to his first NFL Playoff game, where he lost, but he was one of the most statistically significant QBs during the 1950s. In 1958, he briefly lost his job to the younger John Brodie, but then he won it back. In 1961, to make way for Brodie, the 35-year-old Tittle was traded to the Giants, where he arguably had his best years as he threw for over 30 TDs twice in four seasons and a 104 rating once. More importantly, Tittle took the Giants to three straight Championship games, although he lost. He retired after 1964 when his team failed to make the playoffs. Tittle was one of the most exciting QBs and he also ran for 39 TDs, despite not being a "mobile QB." A photo of an exhausted, bleeding Tittle in the endzone is one of the NFL"s most iconic photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted September 18, 2022 Author Share Posted September 18, 2022 #22: Troy Aikman Primary team: Dallas Cowboys Born in California College: UCLA 1st overall pick in 1989 3x Super Bowl Champion + 1 SB MVP 5x top three in comp%, once leading the league 3x top three in Low INT%, once leading the league 2x top three in AYA 2x top three in QB Rating 2x won 75% of the team's games I watched Aikman's entire career rather closely as I was born and grew up in Dallas and started watching football regularly only a year or two before he was drafted. He was drafted 1st overall in 1989 and was compared to both Marino and Elway, capable of knocking a bottle off someone's head from like 50 yards+ away or something like that. The Cowboys oddly used another 1st round pick to drafted QB Steve Walsh in the supplemental draft, who had been new Coach Jimmy Johnson's QB the previous year at Miami U. (FL). So a controversey between rookie QBs began immediately. The Cowboys went 1-15 that first year as Aikman threw 18 INTs and was frequently injured. Meanwhile, Walsh won their only game but wasn't statistically much better. In year two, Aikman showed enough improvement that they traded Walsh. In 1991, Aikman took the Cowboys into the playoffs for the first time in years. In 1992, Aikman and the Cowboys blew out the Bills 52-17 in the Super Bowl, with Aikman getting the MVP. Throughout the playoffs that season, he threw 8 TDs to 0 INTs. They beat the Bills in the Super Bowl again during the 1993 season, and Aikman completed about 75% of his passes for the entire playoffs. In 1994, it seemed like the Cowboys would win three Super Bowls in a row, but they to Steve Young and the 49ers in the NFC Championship. However, in 1995, Aikman beat the Steelers in the Super Bowl for his third SV victory. I remember not paying that much attention to this last Super Bowl because I was so used to the Cowboys going to the Super Bowl, so in 1996 I expected them to go to the Super Bowl again, as did many other people. However, they were defeated in an upset against the Carolina Panthers in the playoffs. After 1996, Aikman and the Cowboys were never quite the same. Aikman, frequently injured, retired at the end of the 2000 season after being knocked out cold by LaVar Arrington, a play I remember well. There were rumors the Dolphins would sign him for 2001, but it never happened. Statistically, Aikman is not very impressive as he never threw for many yards or for many TDs, primarily because he had the workhorse RB Emmitt Smith rushing about as much as Aikman was throwing. We'll never know if he would have thrived in a passing offense or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted September 18, 2022 Author Share Posted September 18, 2022 #21: John Elway Primary team: Denver Broncos Born in Washington state College: Stanford 1st overall pick in 1983 x1 MVP x5 Super Bowl appearances (won 2+1 MVP, and lost 3) x4 won 75% of his team's games x2 top three in QB Rating x1 led league in yards Elway is often a top 5 QB for most fans, but realistically, it's hard to put him in the top 20. Elway was drafted by the Colts in the famous 1983 draft, but he refused to play for them, so he was immediately traded to the Broncos. Elway's rookie season was not impressive as he couldn't even complete 50% of his passes, but starting in year 2, he was winning games, including 12 wins in 1984. From 1984-1989, the Broncos were expected to win, and Elway had three SB appearances to show for it, although all loses and two blowout losses. In his first three SBs, he averages less than 50% completion, had 6 INTs (to only 2 TDs) and 3 fumbles. His QB Rating was under 20 in the 10-55 blowout against the 49ers. The next season, Elway had his first losing season since his rookie year. At this point in his career, the 31-year-old Elway barely had more TDs than INTs and he didn't even average at least an 80 QB Rating. Elway seemed to always find a way to win despite himself, which might be part of the fascination with him. In 1991, the team rebounded as Elway took the Broncos to the AFC Championship game, but they lost to the Bills. They wouldn't go deep into the playoffs again for a few years. In 1995, Elway got exactly the kind of help he needed--RB Terrell Davis, who dominated the league in rushing during his short career. The Davis-Era Broncos saw Elway with some of his best statistics, although he strangely had been showing improvement from above average statistic to good statistics starting in 1993 when he was 33. In 1997 and 1998, Elway and Davis won back-to-back Super Bowls and Elway retired at the top of the game. Elway deserves his spot as one of the greats because of his propensity to win. If the ranking were based exclusively on statistics and efficiency, he might not even be in the top 50. He wracked up some numbers, sort of like Warren Moon, but Elway only threw for 4,000+ yards once and never hit 30+ TDs. He had difficulty completing passes until 1993. He was also sacked 516 times (once leading the league) and fumbled 137 times (once leading the league). He did rush for 33 TDs, although never more than 304 yards. While, he won an MVP in the strike-shortened 1987 season, he was never a 1st Team All-Pro QB, which usually denotes who the best QB was for a season (generally they're also MVP). Elway had a charisma and a myth to him that sort of carried him to a top 5 QB, but I have 20 QBs who were better quarterbacks overall than Elway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted September 18, 2022 Author Share Posted September 18, 2022 #20: Ken Anderson Primary team: Cincinnati Bengals Born in Illinois College: Augustana 3rd Round Pick in 1971 1x MVP 1x First Team All-Pro 1x Super Bowl appearance (lost) 2x won 75% of the team's games 6x top three in Comp%, thrice leading the league 5x top three in Low INT%, thrice leading the league 4x top three in QB rating, leading the league every time 4x top three in AYA, twice leading the league 2x led league in yards 1x led league in TD% Anderson is the greatest eligible QB who is not in the Hall of Fame. What a crime! Look at his accomplishments above. If these were medals, he'd be one of those field marshals that's weighed down by their medals. As a 3rd round pick, he was expected to be a backup, by year 2 in 1971, he took over the starting job and proved to be one of the best QBs in the league consistently. However, it took until 1981 until Anderson and his Bengals went deep into the playoffs. That season, Anderson faced Montana's 49ers, and while Anderson out-gunned Montana in the game in both yards and TDs, the 49ers cranked out a narrow victory. Anderson never got deep in the playoffs again as there were stronger teams in the league during that time. In 1985, the Bengals opted to start Boomer Esiason over Anderson, and so Anderson spent his last two seasons as a backup. Especialy from 1974-1983, Anderson was routinely a top three QB in some passing category or another, usually leading in a category. In 1982, he had a 70.6 comp%, which was 7% higher than the 2nd place finisher. Anderson was also fairly mobile for his time, rushing for over 300 yards twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted September 18, 2022 Author Share Posted September 18, 2022 #19: Dan Marino Primary team: Miami Dolphins Born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania College: Pittsburgh 27th overall pick in 1983 1x MVP 3x First Team All-Pro 1x Super Bowl appearance (lost) 5x led league in yards 3x top three in AYA, once leading the league 3x led league in TDs 3x top three in TD%, twice leading the league 2x top three in comp% 2x top three in low INT% 1x led the league in QB rating When I was a kid, it seemed like the two best QBs were Montana and Marino. Montana seemed like he always won and Marino always seemed like he threw the most yards. He was the last 1st round QB draft pick in the 1983 QB class that included Elway, Kelly, O'Brien, Eason, and Blackledge. I think Marino was the best QB of the group, even though he had only 1 Super Bowl Appearance, while Elway had 5 and Kelly had 4. Marino was statistically efficient every single season of his career except for his final season in 1999. He took the Dolphins to the divisional playoffs his rookie season. In 1984, he had a season for the ages, which statistically seemed more like a 21st century stat line (5,084 passing yards and 48 TDs) feats that wouldn't be surpassed until next century (2004 for TDs and 2011 for yards). 1984 was also his only Super Bowl performance, but he lost to Montana's 49ers. By 24, Marino had seen his best year, both statistically and victoriously. Except for two AFC Championship losses in 1985 and 1992, the Dolphins were never in position to go to the Super Bowl. Marino's only real flaws were occasional INT issues (he led the league once) as he threw 20+ INTs on four occasions. While he was almost comically immobile, he made up for it for having the quickest release the NFL had ever seen, which helped him lead the league in lowest sack% 10 times, including his first seven seasons! Despite a long career, he was sacked only 270 times (Elway was sacked 516 times). He retired in 1999, but he considered signing with his birthtown Pittsburgh Steelers for one more season. Marino would be a top 10, possibly top 5 QB if this ranking were based exclusively off statistics. He retired with the record for passing yards and passing TDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted September 18, 2022 Author Share Posted September 18, 2022 #18: Sid Luckman Primary team: Chicago Bears Born in New York City (Brooklyn), New York College: Columbia 2nd overall in 1939 5x First Team All-Pro 4x Champion and MVP for two of these games. 4x won 75% of the team's games 3x led in yards 3x led in TDs 2x led in QB Rating 2x top three in Low INT%, leading the league once 2x top three in TD%, leading the league twice Luckman initially didn't want to play professional football and it took some arm twisting to get him uniform. He wasn't the primary passer until his second season in 1940, and won his 1st championship that year. He repeated this feat in 1941 as the Bears lost only 1 game in the regular season. After losing the Championship game in 1942, he won a 3rd championship in 1943. That season was also his best statistically, as he threw 28 TDs (5 more than 2nd place), had a 13.9 TD% (over 4% over 2nd place), and a QB rating of over 107 (over 12 pts higher than 2nd place). Sadly, after 1943, Luckman decline from an A+ QB to an A QB. That is, he was still among the best, but he wasn't unstoppable anymore. 1944 saw him miss the playoffs for the first time as the primary starter. However, in 1946, Luckman had his last great season and won his 4th championship. The next year, he led the league with 31 INTs and failed to make the playoffs and never made the playoffs again. He retired after the 1950 season, having started only a few games his last two seasons. Luckman may have been the least mobile QB in NFL history as he ran for negative 239 yards and only 4 TDs. It should be noted that Luckman was one of the best punters in his day. He has the highest career TD% in NFL history with 7.9%. He was also the all-time passing leader for the Bears until Jay Cutler surpassed him in yards in the 21st century. Here he is hauling ass to get back to the line of scrimmage: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 #17: Len Dawson Primary Team: Kansas City Chiefs Born in Ohio College: Purdue 5th overall draft pick in 1957 2x First Team All-Pro 2x Super Bowl appearances (1 win+SB MVP, 1 loss) 1x AFL Champion 7x top three in comp%, leading the league each time. 4x top three in TD%, leading the league each time. 3x led league in TDs 3x won 75% of team's games 3x top three in AYA, leading the league each time 3x top three in QB Rating, leading the league each time Despite being the 5th overall pick for the Steelers, they grabbed future HoFer Bobby Layne to be the starter. After three seasons rarely playing as a backup, he was traded to the Brown, where he was a backup again for two seasons. In 1962, he signed with the Dallas Texans (soon to be the Kansas City Chiefs). Dawson's years of greatness were from 1962 through 1969, when he was one of the best and routinely led the league in several passing categories. He won the AFL Championship his first season as starter (AFL stats count as NFL stats). At the end of 1966, the Chiefs faced the Packers in the 1st Super Bowl in history, but the Packers won the game. It wasn't until 1969 that Dawson got to the Super Bowl again, and despite a clear drop off in his regular season efficiency, he defeated the Minnesota Vikings and won the SB MVP. Dawson's final six seasons were mostly quiet, and he was only a part-time starter his final two seasons, although he led the league in completion % in his final season at age 40. Dawson was at the top of at least one positive passing category for seven seasons, but he also led in fumbles twice. It is to be decided if Mahomes surpasses Dawson as the greatest Chiefs QB of all time, but at the moment, that distinction is clearly Dawson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 #16: Roger Staubach Primary Team: Dallas Cowboys Born in Cincinnati, Ohio College: Navy 10th round pick in 1964 5x Super Bowl Appearances (2 wins+1 SB MVP, 2 losses as starter and a loss as a backup) 5x top three in QB Rating, leading the league four times 5x top three in AYA, leading the league four times 3x top three in comp% 3x top three in Low INT%, leading the league each time 3x top three in TD% 1x led league in TDs I was born before Staubach's final season, so I have no memory of him playing, although I may have technically seen him. My dad used to have season tickets midfield before I was born and saw plenty of Staubach games. My dad used to take my much older half-sister to Sunday school to the same place where Staubach took his kid. They'd talk and my dad gave me his autograph at some point. Anyway, Staubach had a weird career. He was drafted in 1964, but very late, probably because he was committed to serve in the Navy for 4 years. As such, Staubach was a 27-year-old rookie and a backup to the younger, but more experienced, Craig Morton. Staubach remained as a backup to Morton in 1970, and sat on the bench as the Cowboys lost the Super Bowl to the Colts. Starting in 1971, Coach Tom Landy decided to alternate Morton and Staubach as starters as he recognized Staubach's potential. With Morton 1-3 in games he started, Landry chose Staubach to finish up the season as starter, and he went 10-0 that year, and he won the SB and SB MVP against the Dolphins. An injury limited Staubach to only 4 games in 1972, but the team got to the NFC Championship game with Morton but lost. The next year, Staubach, now healthy, replicated this feat. It wasn't until 1975 when Staubach got to the SB again, this time with the Steelers, who defeated him. However, in 1977, Staubach returned to the SB and defeated the Broncos, led by former teammate Craig Morton. The next year, 1978, Staubach again went to the SB and again lost to the Steelers. During Staubach's final season, in 1979, the Cowboys, who seemed to be on another SB run, lost in the divisional playoffs by only 2 points. Doctors convinced Staubach to retire after the season because of two major concussions, and the starting punter, Danny White, became the team's starting QB for several seasons thereafter. Staubach was sort of like an early version of Steve Young in that he was deadly accurate and mobile. He ran for over 300 yards three times, although he was frequently sacked (leading the league once). Generally, there's a debate between Staubach and Aikman on who the greatest QB in Cowboys history is. However, I don't think there's much debate. While Aikman has one more ring, Staubach led the team to one more Super Bowl, and he never had a mediocre or bad season statistically, unlike Aikman. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunell Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 Namath ahead of Kelly is a.... very interesting choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 11 minutes ago, Brunell said: Namath ahead of Kelly is a.... very interesting choice. Isn’t a choice. I made an algorithm and I’m presenting the ranking it created. I personally think Kelly was better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunell Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 2 hours ago, vcczar said: Isn’t a choice. I made an algorithm and I’m presenting the ranking it created. I personally think Kelly was better. Ah, figured. The sole ring continues to carry Namath in millions of different ways ha ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 #15: Arnie Herber Primary Team: Green Bay Packers Born in Wisconsin College: Regis Pre-draft rookie in 1930 x1 MVP x2 First Team All-Pro x5 Championship appearances, (2x wins as starter+MVP, x1 win as backup, 2x loss, one as backup and one as starter) x4 top three in QB Rating, leading the league thrice x3 won 75% of the team's games x3 top three in comp%, leading the league twice x3 top three in low int%, leading the league twice x3 top three in TD%, once leading the league x3 led league in TDs x3 led league in yards x3 top three in AYA, leading the league once Herber took advantage of having the first true WR, which allowed him to throw the ball more frequently and more effectively than other QBs during part of his career. The 20-year-old Herber was picked up by his hometown Packers, despite having not played college football for a year. Possibly because of this he wasn't much of a factor his first two seasons, although the Packers won the Championship in 1930. Starting in 1932, Herber became the team's primary passer, and he led the league in both yards and TDs. In 1934, he led the league in just about every passing category. Starting in 1935, Herber had Don Hutson as his WR, the original Jerry Rice. In 1936, Herber and Hutson went 10-1-1 and won the Championship. They again went to the Championship in 1938, but they lost to the Giants, but during this season Cecil Isbell was throwing more passes than Herber. The next season, Herber was once again the primary passer, and the team defeated the Giants in the Championship. Herber, only 30, retired after 1940 as the team started letting Isbell pass the ball more often. However, he came out of retirement 4 years later, in 1944, to lead the Giants to the Championship, but they lost to his former team, the Packers. He played one more season for the Giants before retiring for good. Herber played during a time when the tailback often threw the ball more than the QB and when sharing passing duties was common. However, during the 1930s, Herber might have been the dominant passer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 #14: Fran Tarkenton Primary Team: Minnesota Vikings Born in Richmond, Virginia College: Georgia 3rd round pick in 1961 x1 MVP x1 First Team All-Pro x3 Super Bowl appearances (all losses) x7 top three in Comp%, once leading the league x6 top three in Low INT%, once leading the league x4 top three in QB Rating x3 top three in AYA, once leading the league x2 won 75% of his team's games x1 led league in TDs x1 led league in Yards He's sort of the Jim Kelly before Jim Kelly in that he went to so many Super Bowls but never won. At age 21 as a Vikings rookie, he threw 4 TDs in his first NFL game. He was a full-time starter for all 18 seasons of his career. It wasn't until his 4th season (1964) that Tarkenton saw his first winning season. While Tarkenton put up stats, he had a difficult time winning, and he was traded to the Giants for the 1967 season, where he played for five seasons. He only saw one winning season on the Giants, despite personally putting up great numbers. In 1972, now 32, he was traded back to the Vikings. In 1972, the Vikings went 12-2 as Tarkenton led them to the Super Bowl, but they lost to the Dolphins. Next year, Tarkenton got the Vikings back to the Super Bowl, but they lost to the Steelers this time. In 1975, Tarkenton seemed on the verge of a third SB run, but the 12-2 Vikings were knocked out during the Playoffs. However, the next year, Tarkenton got them back to the SB, but they lost to the Raiders. The following year, in 1977, Tarkenton got within a game of the SB, losing the NFC Championship to the Cowboys. Tarkenton, after several seasons considering retirement, played one more season in 1978, going deep in the playoffs again, but ultimately losing. Tarkenton led the league with 32 INTs his final season, although he was winning games. At the time of his retirement, he held the record for passing yards and passing TDs. He was also highly mobile, rushing for 3,674 yards and 32 TDs, although he was sacked frequently (leading the league once) and lost more yards in sacks than he gained in rushing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 #13: Terry Bradshaw Primary Team: Pittsburgh Steelers Born in Louisiana College: Louisiana Tech 1st overall pick in 1970 x1 MVP x1 First Team All-Pro x4 Super Bowl Champion, twice winning SB MVP x4 won 75% of his team's games x3 top three in TD%, twice leading the league x2 led league in TDs Bradshaw's 4 SB championships lifts Bradshaw to #13, despite rarely being a top QB in efficiency. Bradshaw's rookie season was a disaster, as he completed only 38.1% of his passes, threw 24 INTs (to 6 TDS), and had a QB rating of 30.4. His second season was a slight improvement, but he still threw over 20 ints and had a QB Rating of under 60. Somehow, in 1972, his 3rd season, he won 11 games and made it to the AFC Championship (lost) even though he failed to complete at least half of his passes and threw only 12 TDs. In his 4th season, he once again went deep into the playoffs, while completed less than half his passes. It was in 1974 that Bradshaw won his 1st Super Bowl, this one against the Vikings, even though he had completed 45% of his passes on the season and had a 55 rating. It wasn't until his 6th season that Bradshaw put up any statistics worthy of being a starter-- an 88 QB Rating, 57% completion, and 18 TDs. On top of this, he won a 2nd Super Bowl, this one against the Cowboys. He regressed in 1976 and 1977, although he made it to the AFC Championship game in 1976. In 1978, he tossed 28 TDs, won 14 games, and defeated the Cowboys again for his 3rd Super Bowl victory. In 1979, he tossed 26 TDs, and led the Steelers to a 4th SB victory, this time against the Rams. From 1980 until his retirement in 1983, Bradshaw never got close to the Super Bowl again, although he was a much better QB than he was in the early part of his career. Bradshaw was also a fairly mobile QB and ran for 32 TDs. Overall, Bradshaw was a mystery. He managed to figure out a way to win despite being a flaw QB (threw 20+ INTs 5 times). His career record was 107-51. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 #12: Kurt Warner Primary Team: St Louis Rams & Arizona Cardinals Born in Iowa College: Northern Iowa Undrafted in 1994 x2 MVP x2 First Team All-Pro x4 top three in comp%, thrice leading the league x4 top three in QB Rating, twice leading the league x3 Super Bowl appearances (1 win+SB MVP, and 2 losses) x3 top three in TD%, twice leading the league x3 top three in AYA, twice leading the league x2 led the league in TDs x2 won 75% of his team's game x1 led the league in yards x1 led the league in Low INT% Arguably the greated undrafted QB. Strange journey. The Green Bay Packers picked him up in 1994 for training camp, but he was released before the season. After spending some time working at a grocery store, he joined the Arena Football League for three seasons (1995-1997), where he became a star, winning two Arena Football League championships and a video game named after him. In 1997, he was to try out for the Chicago Bears but this was nixed when he got injured. In 1998, he played in NFL Europe for the Amsterdam Admirals and led the league in passing yards and TDs. That same year, he joined the St. Louis Rams as a backup and 27-year-old rookie, but he rarely played. The next season, 1999, Warner had the starting job and became a legend, leading an explosive Rams offense. From 1999-2001, he led the Rams to the SB twice, led the league in comp% all three seasons, won 2 MVPs, and in general, was easily the best QB in the league during this time. For whatever reason, Warner's 2002 season was a disaster, as he threw only 3 TDs to 11 INTs and went 0-6, as he missed most of the rest of the season to injury. He missed most of 2003 after being pulled as starter for fumbling 6 times in one game. Warner was released following the season and was signed by the NY Giants for 2004, but despite putting up above average-to-good numbers, he was replaced as starter by rookie QB Eli Manning. In 2005, the Cardinals signed Warner, but he was replaced by Josh McCown aftering going 2-8 for the season. In 2006, he played decently enough but went 1-4 in limited playing time. The years 2007-2009 mirrored, somewhat, Warner's 1999-2001 period in that he had a three-year streak of Hall of Fame performance. In 2007, Warner, now 36, threw 27 TDs despite only 11 starts. In 2008, he tossed 30 TDs and led the Cardinals to their first Super Bowl, a game lost only in the last seconds to the Steelers. He played one more season in 2009, leading the Cardinals to 10 wins and deep into the playoffs as well as throwing 26 TDs on the season. Warner apparently considered coming out of retirement five years later in 2014. Warner's career is unique. He had 6 seasons of greatness, divided equally by five years of mediocrity--and all only after not being in the NFL for four seasons. It should be noted that Warner's playoff statistics are phenomenal. He went 9-4 in the playoffs, 31 TDs to only 14 INTs and 102.8 QB Rating. In his three SB appearances, he threw for 365 yrds, 414 yrds, and 377 yrds. He is arguably the greatest Cardinals QB in history, and if only his peak is considered, the greatest Rams QB in history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted September 21, 2022 Author Share Posted September 21, 2022 #11: Sammy Baugh Primary Team: Washington Redskins Born in Texas College: TCU 6th overall pick in 1937 x1 MVP x3 First Team All-Pro x4 Championship appearances ( 2 wins+1 MVP, 2 losses) x9 top three in comp%, leading the league 8 times. x5 top three in Low INT%, leading the league each time x4 led the league in yards x3 top three in AYA, leading the league each time x3 won 75% of his team's games x2 top three in QB Rating, leading both times I'm shocked he didn't make the top 10. He was the first 1st overall pick in Washington Redskins history in 1937. As a rookie, he broke the NFL record for completions in a season and won the Championship against Sid Luckman's Bears. His next great year was in 1940, when he led the Redskins to Championship against the Bears once again, but this time the Bears won, and in the greatest playoff landslide in history. The Redskins lost 0-73. Baugh got his revenge against the Bears in 1942, when he faced them in the Championship for a 3rd time, and this time winning once again. 1945 was arguably his greatest statistical season as he completed over 70% of his passes and scored a 109.9 QB Rating when an excellent rating was typically around 80. Additionally, he led his team to the Championship again but lost by 1 point to the Rams. From 1946 until he retired at age 38 in 1952, he never went to the Championship again, but he remained at the top of several passing categories the next four seasons. Baugh also played P and DB, and in 1943 led the league in a category for each position. For six straight years he led in major punting categories, while at DB he led the league with 11 INTs in 1943. At retirement, he held several passing, punting, and defensive records. Baugh was a clear step above the 1920s and 1930s QBs, and he was much more consistently excellent than all 1940s QBs with the exception of Otto Graham. Baugh is probably the only pre-WWII QB who could play well in the NFL today. He was that good (note: 8-times leading the league in comp%). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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