AMPU: The Big Red Button (1960 Playtest)

[Cal]

5 minutes ago, Ich_bin_Tyler said:

For the Ex-Presidents do you want me to just indicate that they are retired but keep them in to see when they die still?

Yeah, that works. However, they will still retire (for real) past 75 like everyone else I believe? @MrPotatoTed to confirm or deny that. 

[MrPotatoTed]

40 minutes ago, Cal said:

Red Retirements, 1960

@Ich_bin_Tyler
President Dwight D. Eisenhower retires.
Former President Herbert Hoover retires. 
Secretary Robert B. Anderson retires.
Senator Ralph Flanders, due to his advanced age, gains Easily Overwhelmed.

@Willthescout7
General Douglas MacArthur retires.
John Taber retires.
Joseph W Martin Jr, due to his advanced age, loses 1 Command.

@Lars
Edward Martin retires.
Howard Alexander Smith retires.
Representative AW Norblad, due to his advanced age, loses 1 Legislative Ability. (now at 0, but still holds office I think)

@OrangeP47
Edith Rogers retires.
Senator Alexander Wiley, due to his advanced age, loses 1 Governing Ability.

Blue Retirements, 1960

@bradleyg223
Ronald Reagan, the actor, retires. (Rolled a 28, needed a 33)
Outgoing Representative Francis E. Walter retires.

@ShortKing
Outgoing Representative Brook Hayes retires.
Outgoing Senator Allen J. Frear retires.
Representative Brent Spence, due to his old age, gains Pliable.
Senator Carl Hayden, due to his advanced age, loses Hale and gains Uncharismatic.

@MrPotatoTed
Outgoing Representative Wilbur Mills retires.
James E. Murray retires.
Sam Rayburn retires.

@pman
Outgoing Representative Emanuel Celler retires.
Outgoing Senator Jennings Randolph retires.
Losing candidate for the Democratic nomination Hubert Humphrey retires.
Clarence Cannon retires.
Joseph O'Mahoney retires.

@Mark_W
Outgoing Governor Herschel C. Loveless retires.
Outgoing Governor Ralph Herseth retires.
Theodore F Green, due to his advanced age, loses 1 Mil.

Please make the changes on your sheet. If someone is dead, I believe that @MrPotatoTed has just been deleting their row, but if he has a secret cemetary tab that is necessary to keep the game from breaking, now is the time to say so 😉 If your draft instructions are already in, I'll run the draft after lunch. If not, you'll have until about 1PM tomorrow. 

Ha, I just delete.

[MrPotatoTed]

38 minutes ago, Willthescout7 said:

Wow, Reagan is gone!

 

Also @Calfor the retirements, are we putting them in a different tab or deleting them from our faction sheet?

Delete them, they are (for game purposes) dead.  

There is an exception for "retired Presidents", who remain in the game mostly because I wanted to see when they die.  Ha.  But they are ineligible for most offices.

[Ich_bin_Tyler]

January 19, 1960: The White House

President Eisenhower sits in the Oval Office with President-Elect Bricker finalizing the transition from one to the other. Outwardly Eisenhower smiles and shows enthusiasm at another Republican sitting in the White House, more continued stability for America, and more opportunities for the nation to grow. Of course he has his reservations about Bricker: the man isn't the most inspiring or unifying, he does have a conservative tilt to him unlike Ike, and he's supported by large corporate interests those seeking to exploit the nation's natural resources. Perhaps he can be a great President, but perhaps not. 

The major threat to Bricker's success would be the Democratic controlled Senate led by Senator Lyndon Johnson. Eisenhower and Johnson had a working relationship and understood how to negotiate, make deals, and put aside personal interests to benefit and protect the nation. Ike can only pray to God that Bricker and Johnson work in the same manner. 

In his farewell speech, Eisenhower warned the nation about the growing "military-industrial complex" stating, "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes."

He also warned about the growing ideological threat from the Soviet Union and other burgeoning communist nations (in this area he had faith in Bricker). Ike promised America that should she need him, he'd be there for her and to support this great nation in whatever ways that he could.

God bless you all and God bless the United States of America.

[MrPotatoTed]

39 minutes ago, ShortKing said:

@Cal so folks who retire, are gone from the game? What's the difference between retiring and dying? Can folks come out of retirement ever if they're young like Reagan?

Yes, gone from the game.  (Unless they're former Presidents, as mentioned above).

The functional difference between retirement and death is eligibility to retire/die.  For this particular phase, only people with a specific career motivation to retire can do so, regardless of age (for example, losing an election and deciding you just don't have the fire in you for it anymore).  These people might meander off to a cottage by the sea for the rest of their days, or might become high priced lobbyists or whatever -- but they're not going to be elected or appointed to offices anymore.  Their time in the political spotlight is over, and so they are for all intents and purposes dead.

There is a later phase which also checks for retirements (and in this phase, also deaths).  In this case, retirement is directly tied to age (regardless of career stature -- with a few exceptions.  The sitting President won't retire early, for example).  You become eligible for a retirement roll over the age of 65, unless you're in a protected job like President, VP, Speaker, etc.  Up to a maximum of two retirements can hit a faction during this phase.  They can also have a maximum of one death, which is weighted first towards those with frail and then by age, and can of course impact anyone regardless of job.

Those were at least the differences last time I looked.  Vcczar has been making edits so always check the rules for the most current information.

[Cal]

Blue team draft order: 

@pman
@Mark_W
@MrPotatoTed
@ShortKing
@bradleyg223

Red tea, draft order: 
@Lars
@Willthescout7
@Ich_bin_Tyler
@OrangeP47
@Vols21

Going to do the Red Team draft first.

[MrPotatoTed]

22 minutes ago, Cal said:

Yeah, that works. However, they will still retire (for real) past 75 like everyone else I believe? @MrPotatoTed to confirm or deny that. 

Kind of.  Basically, my concept was that a term-limited ex President "retires" like 95% of the time, meaning they are no longer eligible to run for the Senate or whatever.  They can still serve as Key Advisor (though I'll probably change this) and General in certain situations.

If they fail a retirement/death phase retirement roll or turn 75 (without hale), then they retire for real, completely checking out of politics ala Jimmy Carter -- and wait for the sweet release of death.  But they're still not removed from the game yet.

Once they fail a death roll or turn 100, then they're removed for real.

This whole complicated mess is just because I thought it would be cool to see what year President Benedict Arnold dies in. Ha.

[Lars]

Dick Lugarrrrrrrrrrr

[Rezi]

1 hour ago, Cal said:

Ronald Reagan, the actor, retires. 

[Vols21]

8 hours ago, MrPotatoTed said:

Yes, gone from the game.  (Unless they're former Presidents, as mentioned above).

 

I think it would be a good feature of the game to allow individuals under a certain age (maybe age 60 or so) to come out of retirement (after sitting out at least 4 years) - and probably limit to those with a certain value because no one cares if your 10 rated backbencher gets to come back.   

For your real life example, look no further than Richard Nixon who retired from politics in 1962 after losing his second election in a row.  4 years later he helped campaign in the midterms, then in 1968 he was brought out of retirement for a couple landslide victories for President.    Whether it's a roll or an event card, it could add a neat twist to some games.

[MrPotatoTed]

8 minutes ago, Vols21 said:

I think it would be a good feature of the game to allow individuals under a certain age (maybe age 60 or so) to come out of retirement (after sitting out at least 4 years) - and probably limit to those with a certain value because no one cares if your 10 rated backbencher gets to come back.   

For your real life example, look no further than Richard Nixon who retired from politics in 1962 after losing his second election in a row.  4 years later he helped campaign in the midterms, then in 1968 he was brought out of retirement for a couple landslide victories for President.    Whether it's a roll or an event card, it could add a neat twist to some games.

This kind of already exists though.  It’s entirely possible for someone to mimic Nixon, or take an even longer “retirement” before re-emerging.  Someone might be Senator, either lose re-election or just choose not to run again — and then do nothing at all for 30 years until they’re suddenly appointed Secretary of Defense or whatever.  They just aren’t removed from the game.  

[Vols21]

The game allows to give candidates a vacation, but not if they get force retired in the game.   It’s probably not often you will get “we just broke history” by retiring a future President 20 years before he runs, and those can be special moments (like some we’ve seen in past 1776 tests to ).  
My point is, Retirement can be a little more undoable than death (this isn’t “Days of Our Lives” ha).   Looks like there are several instances that cause that game forced retirement, so a chance to “rethink that decision made in the heat of the moment” and return to the game (4-10 years later) could be a fun feature.    
one of the common ways we see this is recent years is a party’s candidate for Senate gets caught up in a scandal, so they roll back out a blast from the past to help them save the seat.    Now I’m not proposing we dredge back 70-80 years old for this purpose.     But someone who retired early and wanted another chance before they turn 60, doesn’t seem out of the realm of possibility.   Just a thought 

[MrPotatoTed]

10 minutes ago, Vols21 said:

The game allows to give candidates a vacation, but not if they get force retired in the game.   It’s probably not often you will get “we just broke history” by retiring a future President 20 years before he runs, and those can be special moments (like some we’ve seen in past 1776 tests to ).  
My point is, Retirement can be a little more undoable than death (this isn’t “Days of Our Lives” ha).   Looks like there are several instances that cause that game forced retirement, so a chance to “rethink that decision made in the heat of the moment” and return to the game (4-10 years later) could be a fun feature.    
one of the common ways we see this is recent years is a party’s candidate for Senate gets caught up in a scandal, so they roll back out a blast from the past to help them save the seat.    Now I’m not proposing we dredge back 70-80 years old for this purpose.     But someone who retired early and wanted another chance before they turn 60, doesn’t seem out of the realm of possibility.   Just a thought 

Fair enough, I certainly wouldn’t fight it if Vcczar or Anthony wanted to take this on.  But from my perspective, it’s already modeled in the game, with a bit of imagination/emergent story play.

[Vols21]

The main tab is not adding up correctly for the #seats,   I went thru last night and updated some faction tabs to add Reps/Senators who were elected and removed some who were defeated, but didn’t look like it changed the totals so not sure where it pulls the counts from.   (If you see an X for title. It’s probably where I hit x to to remove them instead of backspace- I hated messing in other faction pages, but wanted to get the most up to date information and didn’t mind to help.

was thinking it looked at the faction tabs and looked for Rep or Senator (so I even spelled it out for those who wrote Sen class 2.     Some formulas started C2 while others started C4 - and don’t think they would affect much.  (Maybe some more that need their office removed)   Any suggestions (or maybe it updated after I closed the page

right now it shows 102 senators, 99 reps,  also shows 19 red Gov when the count is actually 21 on the Govstates tab ((Val Peterson of NE is colored blue but is part of Wills red faction) 

[Arkansas Progressive]

8 minutes ago, Vols21 said:

The main tab is not adding up correctly for the #seats,   I went thru last night and updated some faction tabs to add Reps/Senators who were elected and removed some who were defeated, but didn’t look like it changed the totals so not sure where it pulls the counts from.   (If you see an X for title. It’s probably where I hit x to to remove them instead of backspace- I hated messing in other faction pages, but wanted to get the most up to date information and didn’t mind to help.

was thinking it looked at the faction tabs and looked for Rep or Senator (so I even spelled it out for those who wrote Sen class 2.     Some formulas started C2 while others started C4 - and don’t think they would affect much.  (Maybe some more that need their office removed)   Any suggestions (or maybe it updated after I closed the page

right now it shows 102 senators, 99 reps,  also shows 19 red Gov when the count is actually 21 on the Govstates tab ((Val Peterson of NE is colored blue but is part of Wills red faction) 

I'll deal with it when I get home

[MrPotatoTed]

13 minutes ago, Vols21 said:

was thinking it looked at the faction tabs and looked for Rep or Senator (so I even spelled it out for those who wrote Sen class 2.     Some formulas started C2 while others started C4 - and don’t think they would affect much.  

Yes, that's exactly how the count works -- it searches the faction pages for "Senator" (full spelling) and "Rep".

The C2-C4 thing could actually be the cause, if a faction page happens to be sorted in such a way that it's first politician or two are Senators.  Best to set them all to C2.

I'll take a glance and see if I can figure out what's going on.

[themiddlepolitical]

I think maybe a general event could have someone come out of retirement if they are 60 or younger at the time of that general event? @MrPotatoTed

[MrPotatoTed]

3 minutes ago, themiddlepolitical said:

I think maybe a general event could have someone come out of retirement if they are 60 or younger at the time of that general event? @MrPotatoTed

I just don't see the need and seems like it'd be complicated to program, but happy to defer to Vcczar or Anthony.

[Vols21]

Ok, I went thru and audited all the house, senate, and gov races trying to get the numbers to match. Several of you picked up new seats because they were never listed and some lost because their guy was defeated and not removed.   Several states had 2 Govs and 4 states had none.  All fixed now with 2 exceptions

1). Lars and Orange both have Rep Horace Brown (based on election write up, he was a candidate for Lars, but that will need to be decided).   They are working thru it now, expect a steel cage match to be announced for the wrestling card at Madison Square Garden.

2) Ted has Gov John Hickey listed twice for Wyoming.  oddly they have different ratings,   One has a wiki and the other does not, so might assume that one or both were added later (didn’t see Hickey on my original copy that I started from).  Either way, Ted will need to delete one of them and I think all the totals add up correctly after that.

[Lars]

@OrangeP47 has yielded Horace Brown to me.

[Arkansas Progressive]

3 hours ago, Vols21 said:

2) Ted has Gov John Hickey listed twice for Wyoming.  oddly they have different ratings,   One has a wiki and the other does not, so might assume that one or both were added later (didn’t see Hickey on my original copy that I started from).  Either way, Ted will need to delete one of them and I think all the totals add up correctly after that

I added Hickey for WY since I couldn't find them first, delete the one with no wiki

[Arkansas Progressive]

State and Seat biases updated for the 1962 midterms

 

[Arkansas Progressive]

Using the new rules, the House votes are the following:

 

 

[Arkansas Progressive]

@pman
@Mark_W
@MrPotatoTed
@ShortKing
@bradleyg223

@Lars
@Willthescout7
@Ich_bin_Tyler
@OrangeP47
@Vols21

[Arkansas Progressive]

Historical Revisionism

Something broke, so VA Senate Race has been re-projected

@Vols21 William L. Scott defeats @bradleyg223 incumbent Absolom Willis Robertson in VA 50-49.

Sorry about that. Current jobs and points have been redistributed.