2024 Issues Poll

[Bushwa777]

6 minutes ago, Mothwoman said:

I wish I had the chance to vote for that man once in my life. Despite what the Liberal media tells us he truly was one of the best Presidents that this country had. Watergate (most of which was fabricated by WaPo with help from the CIA) really pales in comparison to all of his successes. The media loves to paint him as an evil guy, but fawns over rapists like Clinton, and Biden. They did the same thing to Agnew, and tried to do it to Reagan too.

If you ever get a chance go to the president Lincoln museum in Springfield there is a hallway where you walk through and you hear all the nasty stuff the press threw at him. Makes today look rather tame

[The Blood]

1 hour ago, Mothwoman said:

what some freak wants to do in their own house is their own business,

You can't call people "freaks" and then claim you don't care about their private lives. A moral stance is a moral stance, and you should at least say it with your chest if you want to condemn trans people's state of being, rather than hand-waving about the boogeymen in society trying to, checks notes, convince you to be a decent person.

[Mothwoman]

52 minutes ago, The Blood said:

You can't call people "freaks" and then claim you don't care about their private lives. A moral stance is a moral stance, and you should at least say it with your chest if you want to condemn trans people's state of being, rather than hand-waving about the boogeymen in society trying to, checks notes, convince you to be a decent person.

I was saying I oppose banning transvestitism from private (not public) spaces, not that I don’t have any opinion on transvestitism in general. Take it another way, I find homosexual relationships disgusting, I see a homo kiss on a television show. I decide to never support the show, the network, or the creators responsible ever again. This is me expressing my personal opinion. However if I advocate for congress passing legislation penalizing immoral media, that is me expressing a political opinion. Personal opinions, and political opinions are different - for example how many people describe themselves as “personally pro-life, but politically pro-choice”? It’s the same thing, I want transvestites as far away from me as possible, but I don’t think they should be outlawed entirely.

[vcczar]

4 minutes ago, Mothwoman said:

I was saying I oppose banning transvestitism from private (not public) spaces, not that I don’t have any opinion on transvestitism in general. Take it another way, I find homosexual relationships disgusting, I see a homo kiss on a television show. I decide to never support the show, the network, or the creators responsible ever again. This is me expressing my personal opinion. However if I advocate for congress passing legislation penalizing immoral media, that is me expressing a political opinion. Personal opinions, and political opinions are different - for example how many people describe themselves as “personally pro-life, but politically pro-choice”? It’s the same thing, I want transvestites as far away from me as possible, but I don’t think they should be outlawed entirely.

What if most voters want to dunk you in a tank of gays, in a public or private place? This is a political opinion. 

[Edouard]

I rarely talk about myself on the forum, I do sometimes on discord but not here however I think this could help our friend to understand some things.

I grew up in an aesthetically heterosexual environment at 200%. In the playground recreated at the age of 7 I liked to play the chef. When I saw two homosexuals kissing in a train station at about the age of 10, I didn’t even know what homosexuality was because my Catholic mother didn’t tell me it existed. I had this rather sudden thought of thinking, "Two men are unable to have feelings for each other, they’re weird, they’re actors." This thought I had naturally, because I had a family upbringing and no attraction having 10 years.

It turns out that later, around the age of 11 to 12, I realized that I was attracted to men and not women, and I tried to convince myself that I was still bisexual until I was 16, and I probably tried because of society. I did everything I could to prepare my mother for my coming out, for about two years I tried to prepare her, and in spite of all that, it went very badly. I have been subjected to real harassment from her part and my relationship with her is not tinged with love, because she loves her son as a biological being, not who I am.

I met only one boy one year older than I at the age of 17, and I’m still with him at the age of 25. Despite a long distance relationship for years I have never deceived him, I feel for him the same feelings as a man towards a woman, we are both male. He played American football and I played judo, in no case are we Hollywood products and in no case have any of us been determined. We’re both PhD students and we don’t really vote left, I’m a centrist and he’s centre-right.

Why am I saying all this? Because there are clichés and preconceived ideas, which come not only from our speaker but also from the society that must be broken. No, homosexual person has not been "converted", no, it is not a perverted person, no, it is not a modern invention (look at Frederick, Richard the Lionheart, Alexandre and Hephaistion or emperor Hadrien for major examples), no, it is not caught, no homosexuals are not forcelly trans people. You can be cisgender and homosexual and cisgender and transexual just as you can be a transgender person and heterosexual, sexual orientation and gender affiliation are two very different things. I am a man and I never had a feeling of discomfort with my gender at birth yet I am homosexual since ever.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Edouard

[Bushwa777]

7 minutes ago, Edouard said:

I rarely talk about myself on the forum, I do sometimes on discord but not here however I think this could help our friend to understand some things.

I grew up in an aesthetically heterosexual environment at 200%. In the playground recreated at the age of 7 I liked to play the chef. When I saw two homosexuals kissing in a train station at about the age of 10, I didn’t even know what homosexuality was because my Catholic mother didn’t tell me it existed. I had this rather sudden thought of thinking, "Two men are unable to have feelings for each other, they’re weird, they’re actors." This thought I had naturally, because I had a family upbringing and no attraction having 10 years.

It turns out that later, around the age of 11 to 12, I realized that I was attracted to men and not women, and I tried to convince myself that I was still bisexual until I was 16, and I probably tried because of society. I did everything I could to prepare my mother for my coming out, for about two years I tried to prepare her, and in spite of all that, it went very badly. I have been subjected to real harassment from her part and my relationship with her is not tinged with love, because she loves her son as a biological being, not who I am.

I met only one boy one year older than I at the age of 17, and I’m still with him at the age of 25. Despite a long distance relationship for years I have never deceived him, I feel for him the same feelings as a man towards a woman, we are both male. He played American football and I played judo, in no case are we Hollywood products and in no case have any of us been determined. We’re both PhD students and we don’t really vote left, I’m a centrist and he’s centre-right.

Why am I saying all this? Because there are clichés and preconceived ideas, which come not only from our speaker but also from the society that must be broken. No homosexual person has not been "converted", no it is not a perverted person, no it is not a modern invention (look at Frederick, Richard the Lionheart, Alexandre and Hephaistion or emperor Hadrien for major examples), no it is not caught, no homosexuals are not forcelly trans people. You can be cisgender and homosexual and cisgender and transexual just as you can be a transgender person and heterosexual, sexual orientation and gender affiliation are two very different things. I am a man and I never had a feeling of discomfort with my gender at birth yet I am homosexual since ever.

Good points. Except historians I have read or heard lately say Richard the lionheart was not gay

[vcczar]

3 minutes ago, Edouard said:

I rarely talk about myself on the forum, I do sometimes on discord but not here however I think this could help our friend to understand some things.

I grew up in an aesthetically heterosexual environment at 200%. In the playground recreated at the age of 7 I liked to play the chef. When I saw two homosexuals kissing in a train station at about the age of 10, I didn’t even know what homosexuality was because my Catholic mother didn’t tell me it existed. I had this rather sudden thought of thinking, "Two men are unable to have feelings for each other, they’re weird, they’re actors." This thought I had naturally, because I had a family upbringing and no attraction having 10 years.

It turns out that later, around the age of 11 to 12, I realized that I was attracted to men and not women, and I tried to convince myself that I was still bisexual until I was 16, and I probably tried because of society. I did everything I could to prepare my mother for my coming out, for about two years I tried to prepare her, and in spite of all that, it went very badly. I have been subjected to real harassment from her part and my relationship with her is not tinged with love, because she loves her son as a biological being, not who I am.

I met only one boy one year older than I at the age of 17, and I’m still with him at the age of 25. Despite a long distance relationship for years I have never deceived him, I feel for him the same feelings as a man towards a woman, we are both male. He played American football and I played judo, in no case are we Hollywood products and in no case have any of us been determined. We’re both PhD students and we don’t really vote left, I’m a centrist and he’s centre-right.

Why am I saying all this? Because there are clichés and preconceived ideas, which come not only from our speaker but also from the society that must be broken. No homosexual person has not been "converted", no it is not a perverted person, no it is not a modern invention (look at Frederick, Richard the Lionheart, Alexandre and Hephaistion or emperor Hadrien for major examples), no it is not caught, no homosexuals are not trans people. You can be cisgender and homosexual and cisgender and transexual just as you can be a transgender person and heterosexual, sexual orientation and gender affiliation are two very different things. I am a man and I never had a feeling of discomfort with my gender at birth yet I am homosexual since ever.

I think a lot of intolerance is based on a lack of exposure. I grew up in Texas and heard all the propagada, such as gay people will force themselves on any straight man. I remember one time I was working with like 5 gay guys doing inventory in c. 1997. I was the only straight person. I was scared shitless because of stuff I'd been told. However, by the end of the night, it's like a switched to 100% tolerant. The main thing was 1) they didn't do anything I feared they'd do. 2) I listened to them talk to each other and they just seemed like normal guys. 3) I asked a guy named Dominique when he realized he was gay. He told me it was in 3rd grade when he realized he had a crush on his PE teacher. The way he said it was so sincere and natural that it eradicated all preconcieved biases that I had. Since then I've had a lot of gay friends. I'm 100% straight, but it is flattering when a gay guy hits on you. It's happened a few times, mostly when I lived in NYC. 

Generally, I think those who fear gay people are possibly closeted gay themselves or just haven't been exposed regularly to gay people. 

Thanks for sharing your story. 

[vcczar]

2 minutes ago, Bushwa777 said:

Good points. Except historians I have read or heard lately say Richard the lionheart was not gay

Like who? I haven't read a single one that doesn't posit that he was or that it was possible that he was. I think he was actually bisexual. 

[Mothwoman]

5 minutes ago, Edouard said:

I rarely talk about myself on the forum, I do sometimes on discord but not here however I think this could help our friend to understand some things.

I grew up in an aesthetically heterosexual environment at 200%. In the playground recreated at the age of 7 I liked to play the chef. When I saw two homosexuals kissing in a train station at about the age of 10, I didn’t even know what homosexuality was because my Catholic mother didn’t tell me it existed. I had this rather sudden thought of thinking, "Two men are unable to have feelings for each other, they’re weird, they’re actors." This thought I had naturally, because I had a family upbringing and no attraction having 10 years.

It turns out that later, around the age of 11 to 12, I realized that I was attracted to men and not women, and I tried to convince myself that I was still bisexual until I was 16, and I probably tried because of society. I did everything I could to prepare my mother for my coming out, for about two years I tried to prepare her, and in spite of all that, it went very badly. I have been subjected to real harassment from her part and my relationship with her is not tinged with love, because she loves her son as a biological being, not who I am.

I met only one boy one year older than I at the age of 17, and I’m still with him at the age of 25. Despite a long distance relationship for years I have never deceived him, I feel for him the same feelings as a man towards a woman, we are both male. He played American football and I played judo, in no case are we Hollywood products and in no case have any of us been determined. We’re both PhD students and we don’t really vote left, I’m a centrist and he’s centre-right.

Why am I saying all this? Because there are clichés and preconceived ideas, which come not only from our speaker but also from the society that must be broken. No homosexual person has not been "converted", no it is not a perverted person, no it is not a modern invention (look at Frederick, Richard the Lionheart, Alexandre and Hephaistion or emperor Hadrien for major examples), no it is not caught, no homosexuals are not forcelly trans people. You can be cisgender and homosexual and cisgender and transexual just as you can be a transgender person and heterosexual, sexual orientation and gender affiliation are two very different things. I am a man and I never had a feeling of discomfort with my gender at birth yet I am homosexual since ever.

Look, chase your zen, man, or whatever, I don’t really care. I’m sorry that your decision ruined your relationship with your mother, but I fail to see why that means I have to support your lifestyle. I have kids who are probably around your age, and I thankfully never had one turn out gay, I’m not sure how I’d respond if one of them thought they were gay.
 

Like I said, you do you, just don’t force me to accommodate it, and don’t call it marriage. I also disagree with your decision to call historical leaders homosexual, very disrespectful imo.

[Bushwa777]

4 minutes ago, vcczar said:

Like who? I haven't read a single one that doesn't posit that he was or that it was possible that he was. I think he was actually bisexual. 

May have been a podcast but dr John Gillingham stated it was a way to announce political alliances against henry

[Bushwa777]

10 minutes ago, vcczar said:

I think a lot of intolerance is based on a lack of exposure. I grew up in Texas and heard all the propagada, such as gay people will force themselves on any straight man. I remember one time I was working with like 5 gay guys doing inventory in c. 1997. I was the only straight person. I was scared shitless because of stuff I'd been told. However, by the end of the night, it's like a switched to 100% tolerant. The main thing was 1) they didn't do anything I feared they'd do. 2) I listened to them talk to each other and they just seemed like normal guys. 3) I asked a guy named Dominique when he realized he was gay. He told me it was in 3rd grade when he realized he had a crush on his PE teacher. The way he said it was so sincere and natural that it eradicated all preconcieved biases that I had. Since then I've had a lot of gay friends. I'm 100% straight, but it is flattering when a gay guy hits on you. It's happened a few times, mostly when I lived in NYC. 

Generally, I think those who fear gay people are possibly closeted gay themselves or just haven't been exposed regularly to gay people. 

Thanks for sharing your story. 

I see your point.  I grew up conservative and pretty much still vote middle of the road lean right but I have several gay friends and was best man at ones wedding 

[Edouard]

I am not here to blame you at all @Mothwoman but to help you understand that even in your last reply, there is the assumption that I choosed to be attracted by men and not women.

The point is here, I did not, I was kind of "family formed" probably the same as you with quite traditionnal and conservative views, or probably close to the family of Vcczar who is straight but has changed his views despite of this.

If one of your child is gay it will not be "because" of your teaching, it will have been determined at the birth and they could not do anything about it, sexual orientation is the same as loving vegetables or not, there are people who love spinards and others who hate it, have they decided it? No they have not.

Allow me to give you others historical examples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_I,_Duke_of_Orléans

He pretty much admitted it himself, so he was likely "direspectfull toward himself"

More recently with Frederick there even were letters of him to his lovers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_the_Great

Yet the sad but accurate society reality with Frederick is that he didn't buy the hatred on homosexuals for an obvious reason and did not call it against nature, but yet he was influenced by the antisemitic climate of his society which led to genociding millions of jews 150 years after his death, and this single societal example tells a lot about what society teaches us what to think about groups, and how the current period (with moderacy) allows us to distanciate ourselves from clichés or easy hatred.

Of course I could give you plenty of additionnal names, but I take old enough and known ones so that you see by yourself it is nothing new and they had not decided, who would make this "choice" at the time they risked death?

A lot because of society ended quite depressed and lived depressed lives for centuries, just like him https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_II_of_Bavaria

Or more recently, him https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by Edouard

[The Blood]

1 hour ago, Mothwoman said:

Take it another way, I find homosexual relationships disgusting

I told you to be transphobic with your chest, not homophobic, wtf.

[The Blood]

Also, anyone still raging over gay people in 2023 is the actual freak who should be discouraged from public life. 

[Mothwoman]

11 minutes ago, The Blood said:

I told you to be transphobic with your chest, not homophobic, wtf.

How am I homophobic? First of all I don’t fear homosexuals, they disgust me. Second of all just because I don’t surrender to the media narrative that homosexuals are totally like normal people, that doesn’t make me homophobic. Again, fuck a guy’s ass all you like, I do not care! My problem comes when people try to shove their sexuality down my throat, such as when they put it on a tv show, like I said in the post that you’re taking out of context. 

26 minutes ago, The Blood said:

Also, anyone still raging over gay people in 2023 is the actual freak who should be discouraged from public life. 

Any man who thinks he can will himself into being a woman should be locked in an insane asylum…

[DakotaHale]

3 hours ago, Pringles said:

Eugene is one. Eugene is all. 

I remember the Eugene1,2,3,4,5 etc. days

[The Blood]

28 minutes ago, Mothwoman said:

Any man who thinks he can will himself into being a woman should be locked in an insane asylum…

You went from "not my business" to "trans people should be in asylums" in a couple hours. You should at least keep your bigotry consistent, assuming you have enough braincells to form coherent positions.  

Edited March 17, 2023 by The Blood

[Mothwoman]

7 minutes ago, The Blood said:

You went from "not my business" to "trans people should be in asylums" in a couple hours. You should at least keep your bigotry consistent, assuming you have enough braincells to form coherent positions.  

Look, when 40% of a group commits suicide, it only makes sense to try and correct the people who want to join that group. I was a bit hyperbolic, but a lot of so called transgenders really do need to be treated for their very serious mental disorder.

[The Blood]

22 minutes ago, Mothwoman said:

Look, when 40% of a group commits suicide, it only makes sense to try and correct the people who want to join that group. I was a bit hyperbolic, but a lot of so called transgenders really do need to be treated for their very serious mental disorder.

I'd want to kill myself if I were you, considering that repeated studies and research on trans people, much compiled by Cornell University in this helpful meta-analysis, reveals that gender-affirming healthcare and social acceptance massively improve mental health outcomes for the transgender community.

But your brain probably can't handle actual empirical evidence on a topic. 

Edited March 17, 2023 by The Blood

[Bushwa777]

Guys I know this is a issue everyone has ideas about but the top of the forum says "a place for general, respectful, political discussion." So can we try to be respectful?

[Cenzonico]

50 minutes ago, Bushwa777 said:

Guys I know this is a issue everyone has ideas about but the top of the forum says "a place for general, respectful, political discussion." So can we try to be respectful?

To be fair, when we start to delve into culture war issues then naturally things are going to get heated. If we want to get mundane, anyone up for a debate on tort reform?

[Mothwoman]

1 hour ago, The Blood said:

I'd want to kill myself if I were you, considering that repeated studies and research on trans people, much compiled by Cornell University in this helpful meta-analysis, reveals that gender-affirming healthcare and social acceptance massively improve mental health outcomes for the transgender community.

But your brain probably can't handle actual empirical evidence on a topic. 

Look it’s late, I don’t have time to read all of that. I’m willing to accept that lying to someone can make them feel better, I do it all the time for just such a reason, but that’s not a solid basis for a society. Men can’t become women, that’s a fact. We can lie to the transvestites and tell them they’re women to spare their feelings, or we can tell the truth.

Actually…

1 hour ago, The Blood said:

I'd want to kill myself if I were you

Goddam. Maybe you are a woman, I’ve never heard a man say something so… catty!

[Eugene]

mothwoman rn:

 

 

[Mothwoman]

4 minutes ago, Eugene said:

mothwoman rn:

 

 

My father, while serving in the 30th Infantry Division in 1944 as part of the allied campaign to liberate France, was robbed of his legs by a Nazi artillery shell. To compare me to the scum who did that to him is insulting, and evil. Eat shit.

[The Blood]

23 minutes ago, Mothwoman said:

Look it’s late, I don’t have time to read all of that. I’m willing to accept that lying to someone can make them feel better, I do it all the time for just such a reason, but that’s not a solid basis for a society. Men can’t become women, that’s a fact. We can lie to the transvestites and tell them they’re women to spare their feelings, or we can tell the truth.

 

Well thank you for admitting you are willing to kill trans people to enforce your false conception of gender. I'm really glad you hold your opinions on a social category as greater than actual human life. This was a productive conversation.

23 minutes ago, Mothwoman said:

Goddam. Maybe you are a woman, I’ve never heard a man say something so… catty!

I'm flattered, though I'm not surprised you would call me catty considering you have both the intelligence and moral character of a day-old kitten.