Thoughts on GOP debate?

[vcczar]

I haven’t watched it yet, but I’m curious about your thoughts. 

[Rezi]

I think Vivek alienated anybody relatively moderate but strengthened his position amongst the far-right base.

 

Nikki Haley impressed in terms of policy and rhetoric, I think she established herself as a top moderate.

 

Christie was good but I think didn’t meet expectations, though the audience was against him.

 

Pence was around a lot but I don’t think he moved the needle at all.

 

Burgum did well at advertising himself with limited time.

 

DeSantis didn’t stick out, which is the opposite of what he needed to do. 
 

Scott and Hutchinson were there.

[ConservativeElector2]

Only Pence and Burgum somehow exceeded the expectations. They weren't great but better than expected. All the others remained behind the expectations. Ramaswamy was cringe sometimes, Christie and DeSantis seemed surprisingly toothless. Haley, Scott and Hutchinson were there but it wasn't memorable.

[Rodja]

It was a complete shitshow,Haley came off as most normal candidate,but since GOP doesn't value normalcy at all I expect Vivek to surge in the polls as the biggest idiot on that stage.

BIDEN 2024!

[Largo833]

I didn’t watch so I can’t comment on how it went, but I do just want to say regarding the reactions to Christie that I never had (and will continue not to have) very high expectations for him in the debates.  I don’t think he’s a particularly bad debater, but I don’t think he’s actually a particularly good one either.  People remember the solid hit he landed on Rubio in 2016 and think he’s a top-tier expert debater, but that was his only significant moment in any of the debates, he never found a way to boost himself, and he never managed to even scratch the front-runner and eventual winner of the primary.  I had to laugh when earlier this year he said he was going to do to Trump what he did to Rubio- my immediate thought was “You were running against Trump in that election!  If you can eviscerate him so badly, why didn’t you do that in any of your eight debate appearances of that primary?”.  Like I said, everyone remembers his one big moment, but (naturally) forgets how forgettable he was for the other 95% of his time on the debate stage, and I’m not expecting much from him.

[vcczar]

I posted the below in the wrong thread. I've now watched the entire debate, but my comments more or less stand:

I'm watching the debate now. My early thoughts are:

DeSantis: Still can't smile like a human and he seems to not understand volume control. His comments also seem staged. He's losing. Smiling seems to be painful for him. 

Ramaswamy: He's the most annoying candidate. Most punchable. He also reminds me of the types of students that think they're smart because they get away with cheating (until I catch them). It's also clear he doesn't know how government works. Oblivious to foreign affars. Definitely the most problematic candidate. This means he's probably winning among GOP voters but he's losing under traditional debate criteria. He hasn't enough knowledge. I like how Christie said he sounded like ChatGPT. That was funny. 

Pence: You know I disagree with Pence on almost everything, but I think he's debating well and coming off as professional, aside from interrupting people a lot. He's being tougher than I expected he would. He's possibly one of those winning right now. 

Borghum: Likable but invisible.

Hutchinson: Likable, less invisible. Handling himself well with limited time. 

Christie: Easily the most watchable. He's predictably the toughest, but he seems to be only at 80% in this debate. I'm waiting for him to shred someone. He's doing well at answering questions. 

Scott: Likable but background. He's really losing this because he needs to compete with Haley and DeSantis and he's not really asserting himself. He's VP material perhaps. 

Haley: She's probably winning the debate. She's not as tough or sound-bitey as Christie but she's probably saying more things that matter to GOP voters. She's debating well and coming off as professional. She may end up outpolling DeSantis eventually. She's also being aggressive. 

I think that's everyone. Most people only watch the beginning of a debate, so I'm typing this during the crucial part of the debate. Here's my prediction:

DeSantis falls by 5% on average. Haley gains 7%, Pence 1%, Hutchinson 1%, and Ramaswamy gains 5% . Trump loses 8%. Borghum loses his 1%. Scott loses 2%. Christie gains 1%. Trump loses most of his 8% to Ramaswamy. Trump is still the clear frontrunner. 

I'll post again if my statesments are significantly altered by the end of this debate. 

[The Blood]

11 hours ago, Rezi said:

I think Vivek alienated anybody relatively moderate but strengthened his position amongst the far-right base.

 

I think what some people are missing is that while Ramaswamy was a noxious demon last night to anyone not in MAGA, Vivek wasn't trying to appeal to anyone beyond MAGA on that debate stage. His campaign isn't focused on winning; it's centered on gaining notoriety, staying in Trump's good graces, and securing a future path in GOP politics, all things I think Vivek succeeded at last night, as despicable as he was. 

[The Blood]

Also, it was really fascinating to see DeSantis completely ignored by the other candidates last night. He's just seen as a non-factor now, and given his complete inability to shine on stage, I expect he'll only continue to decline in relevance. And it's only at that point he might be desperate enough to go on the attack and expose himself to a campaign-ending debate moment, and I don't expect him to hold his own once he goes on the attack, given he didn't couldn't even perform well reciting his canned lines last night.

[ConservativeElector2]

Vivek's best line was "drill, frack, burn coal, embrace nuclear". That's exactly the answer that should be given to climate change activists. DeSantis hit the nail when talking about Fauci. From Pence I liked the peace through strength statement. 

[vcczar]

33 minutes ago, The Blood said:

Also, it was really fascinating to see DeSantis completely ignored by the other candidates last night. He's just seen as a non-factor now, and given his complete inability to shine on stage, I expect he'll only continue to decline in relevance. And it's only at that point he might be desperate enough to go on the attack and expose himself to a campaign-ending debate moment, and I don't expect him to hold his own once he goes on the attack, given he didn't couldn't even perform well reciting his canned lines last night.

DeSantis also probably ignored answering questions more than anyone. 

I think Vivek is banking on Trump being forced out so he can absorb Trump’s followers. 

[The Blood]

9 minutes ago, ConservativeElector2 said:

Vivek's best line was "drill, frack, burn coal, embrace nuclear".

Yes, I did love the full-fledged sociopathy of declaring climate change a hoax and then vowing to accelerate the forces burning our planet to a crisp (minus nuclear, obviously).

[vcczar]

This is how I’d rank their debate performances:

Style/Substance/Effect

DeSantis D/D/D

Ramaswamy F/F/A

Pence B/B/C

Haley A/A/B

Scott B/C/D

Christie A/B/C

Burgum C/C/D

Hutchinson B/C/C

While Trump wasn’t there, he routinely is an F/F/A debater. You don’t have to have issue knowledge and debate skills to win a political debate. Those polled have their own rules for who the winner is, and typically that winner is predetermined by them  

 

[Pringles]

23 minutes ago, ConservativeElector2 said:

Vivek's best line was "drill, frack, burn coal, embrace nuclear". That's exactly the answer that should be given to climate change activists. DeSantis hit the nail when talking about Fauci. From Pence I liked the peace through strength statement. 

Vivek is a true intellectual. Truly a bright young mind of our times and NOT a Trump owned grifter. Definitely not. 
 

 

[Rezi]

Vivek has easily laid the groundwork better than any other politician to be Trump’s Vice Presidential nominee and his successor. Ramaswamy vs Harris 2028, you better be ready!

[ConservativeElector2]

1 hour ago, The Blood said:

Yes, I did love the full-fledged sociopathy of declaring climate change a hoax and then vowing to accelerate the forces burning our planet to a crisp (minus nuclear, obviously).

Climate change might not be a complete hoax idk, but even if it's happening it's neither completely manmade nor does it warrant the deranged hysteria created by left-wing activists. OMG it's hot... yeah guess what it's summer... I can hardly think of a topic I am less interested in when it comes to determine who I am voting for. Things like climate action plans do not interest me the slightest. There always had been wildfires, hurricanes and people had been affected by it. That's tragic and we should double the effort to help them. However, we won't accomplish that by succumbing to the climate hysteria created by Thunberg and her supporters.

Edited August 24, 2023 by ConservativeElector2

[The Blood]

6 minutes ago, ConservativeElector2 said:

OMG it's hot... yeah guess what it's summer...

Antarctic sea ice is failing to properly replenish this winter in a historic occurrence, coral reefs off the Florida coast were entirely bleached by heat this summer, heat waves are in fact growing more disruptive and deadly every passing year, and yes, no matter how much hand-waving you do, climate disasters are increasing at a rapid pace and will only get worse. If you aren't going to own up to the serious threat posed by climate change, and the lives at stake here, you are not a serious person, you're just deluded and willing to sacrifice human lives and the environment for your political narrative. 

[ConservativeElector2]

1 hour ago, Pringles said:

Vivek is a true intellectual. Truly a bright young mind of our times and NOT a Trump owned grifter. Definitely not. 
 

 

Yeah, I am not saying the post-debate hype is in any form warranted lol besides the catchy quote on energy, he was cringe more often than not. Overall the whole debate was bland. No one really stood out or shined. As written above, I believe, Pence and Burgum fared better than I expected but that's it.

Edited August 24, 2023 by ConservativeElector2

[Rezi]

50 minutes ago, ConservativeElector2 said:

Climate change might not be a complete hoax idk, but even if it's happening it's neither completely manmade nor does it warrant the deranged hysteria created by left-wing activists. OMG it's hot... yeah guess what it's summer... I can hardly think of a topic I am less interested in when it comes to determine who I am voting for. Things like climate action plans do not interest me the slightest. There always had been wildfires, hurricanes and people had been affected by it. That's tragic and we should double the effort to help them. However, we won't accomplish that by succumbing to the climate hysteria created by Thunberg and her supporters.

Greta Thunberg hasn’t been relevant in like 3 years lol, why is the right still so fixated on her.

[vcczar]

5 minutes ago, Rezi said:

Greta Thunberg hasn’t been relevant in like 3 years lol, why is the right still so fixated on her.

Now that @ConservativeElector2 has mentioned her, he will be required to marry her. 

[vcczar]

I'm trying to get through the Trump interview but I can't. He's just rambling and repeating himself. I'll just look up the highlights. 

[Pringles]

The best thing Greta ever did was when she took down Andrew Tate. Most productive moment of her entire activist career. Taking down sex traffickers on Twitter. 

[ShortKing]

2 hours ago, The Blood said:

Also, it was really fascinating to see DeSantis completely ignored by the other candidates last night. He's just seen as a non-factor now, and given his complete inability to shine on stage, I expect he'll only continue to decline in relevance. And it's only at that point he might be desperate enough to go on the attack and expose himself to a campaign-ending debate moment, and I don't expect him to hold his own once he goes on the attack, given he didn't couldn't even perform well reciting his canned lines last night.

I have to imagine the DeSantis camp assumed they were gonna be facing a lot more incoming from the other candidates than ended up metastasizing and didn't prepare on how to present an affirmative case for his candidacy, thinking they were gonna be on defense the whole time. And honestly, it does seem tactically odd for so many of the other candidates to focus their fire on Vivek but it does seem like it was less about campaign strategy and more just that they genuinely can not stand that guy. I was actually surprised that Christie wasn't more forceful but it led to Pence and Haley having better performances than I anticipated. 

[Willthescout7]

I was prepared to like Vivek…then he started talking and now I’m completely over him. No one irritates me more. 
 

I was fully prepared for Haley to fail to stand out, but I’m really happy she did well. I think she would be a strong candidate in the general, but I doubt her ability to make it that far

[ConservativeElector2]

1 hour ago, Rezi said:

Greta Thunberg hasn’t been relevant in like 3 years lol, why is the right still so fixated on her.

Oh I have to disagree respectfully. Where I live the media still runs (too much) empty news stories on her. 

1 hour ago, vcczar said:

Now that @ConservativeElector2 has mentioned her, he will be required to marry her. 

🤮(I guess she would file for divorce even faster than I could. I can sit out nonsense pretty well, but I doubt she would be capable to even remain in the same room with someone not sharing her activist philosophies)

[Pringles]

1 hour ago, vcczar said:

I'm trying to get through the Trump interview but I can't. He's just rambling and repeating himself. I'll just look up the highlights. 

There's a moment where Tucker asks him did Epstein kill himself...