Timur Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, Timur said: Well, a poll found this result in IA. https://victory-insights.com/files/Iowa_Biden_04-21_PollReport.pdf Kamala Harris 28% Pete Buttigieg 15% Michelle Obama 12% (Why do they add her?) Amy Klobuchar 9% John Kerry 7% Elizabeth Warren 3% Sanders 2% AOC 2% Maybe Americans finally want someone younger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcczar Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Patine said: With all due respect, this sounds like a similar view of the party loyalty or party unity above conviction or belief of what needs to be done to address real problems I've criticized @ConservativeElector2 for a few times. Even if it's radical or, "bitter medicine," like some political solutions must be, because problems are so difficult, profound, or have been ignored for so long, and the, "Establishment," has no appetite, nor political will (or political courage) to tackle them, the promoting of needed, even if it ruffles feathers, and one must seek, "odd-bedfellows," (ad hoc, as a rule) to see it done - this is what creates, in political history across the board, globally, in general, political greatness. Being a cautious and loyal party, "drone voter," does not create such political greatness, but far more often ignonamity in the long run of legacy. I don't care about party loyalty. What I care about is preventing a more socially conservative president from becoming president. I have zero loyalty for the Democratic Party, except as the only useful coalition to stop social conservatism. I think any social liberal or social progressive that bomb throws to indirectly help the social conservative candidate is not a real social liberal/progressive -- they're akin to a kind of social terrorist in my view, quite selfish, quite ironic, and more evil than good. Puritanism is a suicide pact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConservativeElector2 Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, Patine said: With all due respect, this sounds like a similar view of the party loyalty or party unity above conviction or belief of what needs to be done to address real problems I've criticized @ConservativeElector2 for a few times. Even if it's radical or, "bitter medicine," like some political solutions must be, because problems are so difficult, profound, or have been ignored for so long, and the, "Establishment," has no appetite, nor political will (or political courage) to tackle them, the promoting of needed, even if it ruffles feathers, and one must seek, "odd-bedfellows," (ad hoc, as a rule) to see it done - this is what creates, in political history across the board, globally, in general, political greatness. Being a cautious and loyal party, "drone voter," does not create such political greatness, but far more often ignonamity in the long run of legacy. I don't care about party loyalty as well. If there's a proper independent conservative emerging with a real chance at winning while the GOP's nominee is controversial and losing more and more ground, guess who I'd support enthusiastically. If presented a few options I am looking for the best, most practical or at least for the lesser of two or more evils. The R next to a name, doesn't make a candidate automatically good, but it just happens most of the time that good candidates have an R attached to their name. That makes a Republican more likely to get my hypothetical support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 Assuming Joe Biden runs for re-election in 2024. 1. Joe Biden 2. Larry Hogan 3. John Kasich 4. Tim Scott 5. Liz Cheney 6. Jeb Bush 7. Adam Kinzinger 8. Mitt Romney 9. Marco Rubio 10. John Bel Edwards 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 Just now, Patine said: True American Conservativism may have, in fact, died with Robert Taft... You mean Paleoconservatives, like the Old Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConservativeElector2 Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 Btw to answer the topic of this, here's my list (could look slightly different in on another day): 1: Tom Cotton 2: Tim Scott 3: Samuel Alito 4: Clarence Thomas 5: Marco Rubio 6: George P. Bush 7: Lindsey Graham 8: Ted Cruz 9: Mitch Daniels 10: Paul Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, ConservativeElector2 said: 3: Samuel Alito I hope you meant John Roberts... maybe Neil Gorsuch? 😛 (Sorry, sorry. Just teasing lol) 😛 Edited July 7, 2021 by Pringles 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 1 hour ago, MrPotatoTed said: Updated Tally. Senator Warren is a consistent #1/#2 for a lot of folks. Elizabeth Warren 58 Bernie Sanders 33 Joe Biden 21 Pete Buttigieg 20 Sherrod Brown 20 Michelle Obama 15 AOC 14 Jay Inslee 13 Julian Castro 12 JEB! Bush 11 Andrew Yang 11 Cory Booker 11 Liz Cheney 10 Carly Fiorina 10 Tim Scott 9 Kamala Harris 9 Amy Klobuchar 9 John Bolton 8 Larry Hogan 8 Justin Amash 8 Richard Ojeda 8 Nikki Haley 7 Howie Hawkins 7 Charles Booker 7 Stacey Abrams 7 Adam Kinzinger 6 Mitt Romney 6 Marianne Williamson 6 Ro Khanna 6 Chuck Schumer 6 Mike DeWine 5 Ben Sasse 5 Jon Tester 5 Hillary Clinton 4 John Bel Edwards 4 John Kasich 4 Paul Ryan 4 Robert Reich 4 Kirsten Gillibrand 4 Marco Rubio 3 Alan Guth 3 Nina Turner 3 Ed Markey 3 Raphael Warnock 3 Raul Labrador 2 Jamie Harrison 2 Tammy Duckworth 2 Chris Christie 1 Joe Manchin 1 Beto O'Rourke 1 And the top 3 are people born in the 1940s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentLiberty Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 1. John Hickenlooper (D) 2. Tulsi Gabbard (D) 3. Condoleeza Rice (R) 4. Francis Suarez (R) (Mayor of Miami) 5. Kyrsten Sinema (D) 6. Colin Powell (R) 7. Joe Manchin (D) 8. Bob Kerrey (D) (Former Gov. and Sen. from Nebraska) 9. Bill Owens (R) (Former Gov. from Colorado) 10. James Mattis (I) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPotatoTed Posted July 7, 2021 Author Share Posted July 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, Patine said: I think one of the biggest criticisms of the strict U.S. two-party system is right there, in the very tenor and spirit of that post. The strict two-party system is doing so much damage, not just politically, but culturally, socially, and in media in the U.S. - and is a threat to national unity and integrity - integrity as a nation-state! The two-party system in the U.S. is actually the greatest foreseeable threat to the nation and it's people (alongside the predations of it's all-powerful, legally impervious plutocratic oligarchic elite) - in a nation with no true, existential threats externally at this point. As I see it, in the long-term, viable political choice and alternative in the United States will not be just a political luxury, but a necessity of national survival, freedom, and livability. I actually think our greatest foreseeable threat is our aging population. In 1935, the US fertility rate was 2.19 -- that is, women gave birth to an average of 2.19 children over the course of their lifetime. By 1957 (the middle of the Baby Boomer birth years), it peaked to 3.77 And we're now at an all time low of 1.64. So we're having half as many children as the parents of the baby boomers did -- that's no surprise. But we're also having the least amount of children that any American generation has had, ever. That should be setting off alarm bells. By 2030...just nine years from now...every Baby Boomer will be 65 or older. This means that 20% of our American population will be retirement age. By 2035, the number of retirees will outnumber our population who are under 18. Right now, there are 3.5 working adults to support each retiree. But by 2060, we'll be down to 2.5 working adults for every retiree. As recently as the 1960s, life expectancy for the average American was only in the 60's. It got up to 79 in 2016 (though it has since started to drop again, mostly due to overdoses interestingly enough). Living longer than ever, and with way fewer working Americans to support them, puts a HUGE strain on not just social security but the entire public health services sector. Forbes predicts Social Security will be out of money by the 2030s -- that's before I plan to retire, and most of you are much younger than I am. And the strain on public health? There will be a much higher demand for hospital care than supply can meet. Medicare and Medicaid made up 15% of US spending in 2016. By 2027, we'll be at 20%. And it just goes up from there, of course. By 2025...FOUR YEARS from now...we'll be suffering from a major deficit in hospital workers -- we need 500,000 more home health aids, 100,000 more nursing assistants, 29,000 more nursing practitioners. And these are pre-COVID numbers, which saw an even further decline in the nursing profession. This is not a problem that can fixed overnight. We need butts in nursing school seats RIGHT NOW, to meet the demand that we'll experience in four years. It's already too late. And we haven't even talked yet about the impact on the economy. Retirement and life expectancy will both be at an all time high right when the social security runs out. What's the plan then? Whatever you think the plan is, you can forget it because rest assured every last one of those retirees is going to VOTE. While you're sitting at home with your arms crossed because no candidate meets your perfect demands, the retirees will be voting in politicians who promise that their benefits are not going to get cut. But where is that money going to be coming from? We already talked about the increase in healthcare expenditures and of course the growing debt interest...this means increasing taxes. It's the only way to get it done. But that's just further strain on the 2.5 working people for every retiree (where it's currently 3.5, and of course used to be much higher than that). So now they don't have social security AND their ability to save for their future retirement is decimated by the increased taxes to pay for today's retirees. And further strain for businesses as well, who will be suffering from a much smaller workforce but continued demand for the services and goods they provide. If supply of workforce can't meet demand for workforce, salaries may increase of course, which is great news for the remaining workers...except that again will be paired with not just high taxes but also significant inflation. I could go on about this all day, but at this point, there is only one solution: We have to become pro-immigration, and we have to do it fast -- because almost every other "civilized" nation in the world is going to be experiencing many of these same problems at the same time, and the demand for immigrants is going to go through the roof. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 Just now, SilentLiberty said: 1. John Hickenlooper (D) 2. Tulsi Gabbard (D) 3. Condoleeza Rice (R) 4. Francis Suarez (R) (Mayor of Miami) 5. Kyrsten Sinema (D) 6. Colin Powell (R) 7. Joe Manchin (D) 8. Bob Kerrey (D) (Former Gov. and Sen. from Nebraska) 9. Bill Owens (R) (Former Gov. from Colorado) 10. James Mattis (I) Now that's a unique list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConservativeElector2 Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 20 minutes ago, Pringles said: I hope you meant John Roberts... maybe Neil Gorsuch? 😛 (Sorry, sorry. Just teasing lol) 😛 I deeply respect the Chief Justice as a person and would definitely support him enthusiastically if he were to be a future Republican nominee, but he is at times disappointing in his decisions, I'm afraid. However, I was very satisfied with his vote in the Brnovich case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezi Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 (edited) 1. Sherrod Brown 2. Elizabeth Warren 3. Steve Bullock 4. Tammy Duckworth 5. Cory Booker 6. Ro Khanna 7. Justin Amash 8. Tom Wolf 9. Joe Biden 10. Jay Inslee Edited July 7, 2021 by Rezi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobs Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 45 minutes ago, MrPotatoTed said: could go on about this all day, but at this point, there is only one solution: We have to become pro-immigration, and we have to do it fast -- because almost every other "civilized" nation in the world is going to be experiencing many of these same problems at the same time, and the demand for immigrants is going to go through the roof. Becoming extremely pro-immigrant and immediately beginning the partial privatization of social security/Medicaid/Medicare as well as surging family growth incentives is the only way out of this mess. This impending catastrophe (and the economic and fiscal implication it entails) is what makes climate change the 2nd greatest existential threat to the United States. The Roosevelt-Johnson induced nightmare is finally coming home to roost. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPotatoTed Posted July 7, 2021 Author Share Posted July 7, 2021 Our updated tally. Warren is so far holding firm to her throne as Queen of the Forum, but we have a surprising surge to number two. Elizabeth Warren 67 Tim Scott 35 Bernie Sanders 33 Joe Biden 30 Sherrod Brown 30 Pete Buttigieg 20 Cory Booker 17 Larry Hogan 17 JEB! Bush 16 Liz Cheney 16 Michelle Obama 15 AOC 14 Jay Inslee 14 Julian Castro 12 Justin Amash 12 John Kasich 12 Andrew Yang 11 Ro Khanna 11 Marco Rubio 11 Carly Fiorina 10 Adam Kidzinger 10 Tom Cotton 10 John Hickenlooper 10 Kamala Harris 9 Amy Klobuchar 9 Mitt Romney 9 Tammy Duckworth 9 Tulsi Gabbard 9 John Bolton 8 Richard Ojeda 8 Samuel Alito 8 Condoleeza Rice 8 Steve Bullock 8 Nikki Haley 7 Howie Hawkins 7 Charles Booker 7 Stacey Abrams 7 Clarence Thomas 7 Francis Suarez 7 Marianne Williamson 6 Chuck Shumer 6 Kyrsten Sinema 6 Mike DeWine 5 Ben Sasse 5 Jon Tester 5 John Bel Edwards 5 Paul Ryan 5 George P Bush 5 Colin Powell 5 Hillary Clinton 4 Robert Reich 4 Kirsten Gillibrand 4 Lindsey Graham 4 Joe Manchin 4 Alan Guth 3 Nina Turner 3 Ed Markey 3 Raphael Warnock 3 Ted Cruz 3 Bob Kerrey 3 Tom Wolf 3 Raul Labrador 2 Jamie Harrison 2 Mitch Daniels 2 Bill Owens 2 Chris Christie 1 Joe Manchin 1 Beto O'Rourke 1 James Mattis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobs Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, Patine said: Privatizing Social Security and Medicare would end up as disastrous, soulless, predatory, and exploitative as privatizing prisons in the U.S. has become. There are just some things that nations run by ethical, feeling, human beings should not entrust to corporations and the vagueries of the free market. Oh no! People shouldn’t be allowed to make voluntary decisions about their own healthcare and retirement! Key word is “partial” privatization. The reality is that if we continue the government-held monopoly then it will go belly up and nobody will be left covered or insured for either old age or infirmity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pringles Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 12 minutes ago, Patine said: Privatizing Social Security and Medicare would end up as disastrous, soulless, predatory, and exploitative as privatizing prisons in the U.S. has become. There are just some things that nations run by ethical, feeling, human beings should not entrust to corporations and the vagueries of the free market. He said partial privatization. Even I am weary of privatizing something as vital as those institutions. BUT, if it is necessary to ensure their long term survival. (Which the survivability of Social Security and Medicare, are really always at stake.) Then those measures must be taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hestia Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 10 minutes ago, Dobs said: Oh no! People shouldn’t be allowed to make voluntary decisions about their own healthcare and retirement! There are other options for healthcare and retirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPotatoTed Posted July 7, 2021 Author Share Posted July 7, 2021 Just for funsies, if we award VP to #2 and then Secretary posts in order of preference, here's where we currently are: President: Elizabeth Warren (D) Vice President: Tim Scott (R) Secretary of State: Bernie Sanders (I) Secretary of Treasury: Joe Biden (D) Secretary of Defense: Sherrod Brown (D) Attorney General: Pete Buttigieg (D) Secretary of the Interior: Cory Booker (D) Secretary of Agriculture: Larry Hogan (R) Secretary of Commerce: JEB! Bush (R) Secretary of Labor: Liz Cheney (R) Secretary of Health & Human Services: Michelle Obama (D) Secretary of Housing & Urban Development: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D) Secretary of Transportation: Jay Inslee (D) Secretary of Energy: Julian Castro (D) Secretary of Education: Justin Amash (I) Secretary of Veterans Affairs: John Kasich (R) Secretary of Homeland Security: Andrew Yang (D) Administrator of the EPA: Ro Khanna (D) Director of Office of Management & Budget: Marco Rubio (R) Director of National Intelligence: Carly Fiorina (R) Trade Representative: Adam Kinzinger (R) Ambassador to the United Nations: Tom Cotton (R) Chair of the Council of Economic Advisors: John Hickenlooper (D) Administrator of the Small Business Administration: Kamala Harris (D) Science Advisor: Amy Klobuchar (D) White House Chief of Staff: Mitt Romney (R) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPotatoTed Posted July 7, 2021 Author Share Posted July 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, Patine said: Warren and Scott on the same ticket? A President/Vice President serving pair of that sort hasn't been since 1797-1801... As I said, this is strictly based off of the order of the votes received so far. Elizabeth Warren is in first place by a wide margin. Tim Scott has made a recent surprising climb to second place. The rest of the cabinet is also in order -- third place vote-getter is Sec of State, fourth place got Sec of Treasury, etc on down the line. There were some ties, but I just stuck with the order the excel sheet put them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPotatoTed Posted July 7, 2021 Author Share Posted July 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, Patine said: True. But that was the effective system they had when Adams and Jefferson were stuck together, too, so... Yep. Likewise, plenty of these cabinet posts wouldn't necessarily make sense. Buttigieg is not an Attorney and Kasich is not a Veteran. Interest rates aren't Biden's specialty, nor is National Intelligence Fiorina's. Not sure what would be scarier -- Liz Cheney as Sec of Labor or Andrew Yang in charge of Homeland Security. I am especially amused by the idea of Mitt Romney as President Warren's Chief of Staff though. ;c) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentLiberty Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 2 hours ago, MrPotatoTed said: Just for funsies, if we award VP to #2 and then Secretary posts in order of preference, here's where we currently are: President: Elizabeth Warren (D) Vice President: Tim Scott (R) Secretary of State: Bernie Sanders (I) Secretary of Treasury: Joe Biden (D) Secretary of Defense: Sherrod Brown (D) Attorney General: Pete Buttigieg (D) Secretary of the Interior: Cory Booker (D) Secretary of Agriculture: Larry Hogan (R) Secretary of Commerce: JEB! Bush (R) Secretary of Labor: Liz Cheney (R) Secretary of Health & Human Services: Michelle Obama (D) Secretary of Housing & Urban Development: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D) Secretary of Transportation: Jay Inslee (D) Secretary of Energy: Julian Castro (D) Secretary of Education: Justin Amash (I) Secretary of Veterans Affairs: John Kasich (R) Secretary of Homeland Security: Andrew Yang (D) Administrator of the EPA: Ro Khanna (D) Director of Office of Management & Budget: Marco Rubio (R) Director of National Intelligence: Carly Fiorina (R) Trade Representative: Adam Kinzinger (R) Ambassador to the United Nations: Tom Cotton (R) Chair of the Council of Economic Advisors: John Hickenlooper (D) Administrator of the Small Business Administration: Kamala Harris (D) Science Advisor: Amy Klobuchar (D) White House Chief of Staff: Mitt Romney (R) Honestly this would be a pretty damn stacked cabinet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cenzonico Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 4 hours ago, MrPotatoTed said: Secretary of the Interior: Cory Booker (D) Secretary of Agriculture: Larry Hogan (R) Secretary of Commerce: JEB! Bush (R) Secretary of Labor: Liz Cheney (R) Secretary of Health & Human Services: Michelle Obama (D) Secretary of Housing & Urban Development: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D) Secretary of Transportation: Jay Inslee (D) Secretary of Energy: Julian Castro (D) Secretary of Education: Justin Amash (I) Secretary of Veterans Affairs: John Kasich (R) Secretary of Homeland Security: Andrew Yang (D) I wonder how well that would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPotatoTed Posted July 8, 2021 Author Share Posted July 8, 2021 17 minutes ago, Cenzonico said: I wonder how well that would work. Generally speaking...ignoring the fact that Buttigieg is not an actual Attorney...I think it's pretty feasible. Some would need to hire experts to serve as Undersecretaries to help them through their blind spots, but that's not a deal breaker. Liz Cheney as Sec of Labor is presumably a trouble area, though I don't know enough about her to say for sure. I think the real problem is the double whammy of Rubio as OMB Director and Romney as Chief of Staff. I imagine them both doing what they can in those positions to slow down and stop a lot of what President Warren tries to achieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timur Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 8 hours ago, MrPotatoTed said: Just for funsies, if we award VP to #2 and then Secretary posts in order of preference, here's where we currently are: President: Elizabeth Warren (D) Vice President: Tim Scott (R) Secretary of State: Bernie Sanders (I) Secretary of Treasury: Joe Biden (D) Secretary of Defense: Sherrod Brown (D) Attorney General: Pete Buttigieg (D) Secretary of the Interior: Cory Booker (D) Secretary of Agriculture: Larry Hogan (R) Secretary of Commerce: JEB! Bush (R) Secretary of Labor: Liz Cheney (R) Secretary of Health & Human Services: Michelle Obama (D) Secretary of Housing & Urban Development: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D) Secretary of Transportation: Jay Inslee (D) Secretary of Energy: Julian Castro (D) Secretary of Education: Justin Amash (I) Secretary of Veterans Affairs: John Kasich (R) Secretary of Homeland Security: Andrew Yang (D) Administrator of the EPA: Ro Khanna (D) Director of Office of Management & Budget: Marco Rubio (R) Director of National Intelligence: Carly Fiorina (R) Trade Representative: Adam Kinzinger (R) Ambassador to the United Nations: Tom Cotton (R) Chair of the Council of Economic Advisors: John Hickenlooper (D) Administrator of the Small Business Administration: Kamala Harris (D) Science Advisor: Amy Klobuchar (D) White House Chief of Staff: Mitt Romney (R) We'll have Obamacare and a non-interventionist policy for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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