Speaker vote going to 2nd ballot for 2nd time in 100 years.

[Largo833]

And Tom Emmer drops out a few hours after becoming the new Speaker nominee.  I have a hunch that this isn't going to end for a good while.

[vcczar]

13 minutes ago, Largo833 said:

And Tom Emmer drops out a few hours after becoming the new Speaker nominee.  I have a hunch that this isn't going to end for a good while.

I was going to try and make my own forecast, but I can see this taking anywhere from a day to weeks now. 

If were an establishment GOPer, I would just empower McHenry until a Speaker can be figured out.

If I were a moderate GOPer, I would find likeminded moderates and make a demonstration that we are going to talk to Democrats about getting a Speaker. This would force the GOP to come to terms to someone--just about anyone. I would then nominate someone like McHenry or Emmer. Someone to the right of me but not MAGA. They'll have to take him. 

If I were MAGA, as I would be a chaos-idiot, I would keep prolonging this as much as possible, unless a MAGA is appointed. I'd shift the blame, not on my own tactics, but on non-MAGA Republican RINOism and their general incompetence from creating the issue. 

I think if anything shows a potential split in the GOP--like a potentially permanent one--it's this speaker battle. This is insane. As someone who will vote Democrat, I'm glad to see it. It shows that Biden could win in a landslide in 2024 with a 40% approval rating! 

[pilight]

2 hours ago, vcczar said:

I think if anything shows a potential split in the GOP--like a potentially permanent one--it's this speaker battle. This is insane. As someone who will vote Democrat, I'm glad to see it. It shows that Biden could win in a landslide in 2024 with a 40% approval rating! 

Only if Trump isn't the nominee or there's someone else for the non-MAGA Republicans to vote for.  Otherwise they'll hold their noses and vote for him again.

[Pringles]

It looks like Mike Johnson is set to become Speaker. We will see what happens. However, if he does assume the role, I expect nothing but utter defeat in the 2024 House Elections, and constant pestering of Johnson's controversial voting record. Johnson seems to have a better demeanor than McCarthy, but we'll see how he reacts to the pressure of being Speaker. Especially as hardliners push the impeachment of Joe Biden, among other things. 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Pringles

[Hestia]

3 minutes ago, Pringles said:

It looks like Mike Johnson is set to become Speaker. We will see what happens. However, if he does assume the role, I expect nothing but utter defeat in the 2024 House Elections, and constant pestering of Johnson's controversial voting record. Johnson seems to have a better demeanor than McCarthy, but we'll see how he reacts to the pressure of being Speaker. Especially as hardliners push the impeachment of Joe Biden, among other things. 

Curious to see how his lackluster fundraising has an impact on races in '24 as well. He raised about $1.2 million compared to McCarthy's $28 million. 

[Rezi]

If Dems are smart, they’ll understand that Johnson has essentially the exact same views as Jim Jordan, just without the baggage/name rec. He should be easy to villainize.

[pilight]

How did all the theocrats end up in the "party of limited government"?

[vcczar]

59 minutes ago, pilight said:

How did all the theocrats end up in the "party of limited government"?

Because they the think limited government ideology shields them from government they don't want, while ignoring that ideology when they impose the government they do want on others. There is no "limited government" government party. I don't think there ever has been, honestly. When the fed government decreases its grip the state or local gov (which can sometimes be worse) steps in. 

[ConservativeElector2]

Now there's a humble and decent person elected Speaker. Not that I wouldn't say that about Kevin too, but I really like Mike for a long time (and at some point inquired about him being added to AMPU I believe). Seems very likeable and he's kind of the politician I am still enthusiastic about.

I listened to his first speech after being elected and I am not sure if I had done that for another Speaker. Even if you disagree with him, Mike seems like the leader who can still be respected by everyone. Really a good choice!

[vcczar]

1 hour ago, ConservativeElector2 said:

Now there's a humble and decent person elected Speaker. Not that I wouldn't say that about Kevin too, but I really like Mike for a long time (and at some point inquired about him being added to AMPU I believe). Seems very likeable and he's kind of the politician I am still enthusiastic about.

I listened to his first speech after being elected and I am not sure if I had done that for another Speaker. Even if you disagree with him, Mike seems like the leader who can still be respected by everyone. Really a good choice!

I wish you'd take him to Austria with you so you can have him. He opposes Ukraine aid. He supports Trump discredited election fraud theory. He's close to Matt Gaetz's wing. He's pretty bad. I gave him the benefit of the doubt as the vote was coming in because I just wanted there to be a Speaker. I'm hoping moderate GOPers vote him out with all the Dems if he starts acting on his MAGA tendencies. 

[jnewt]

Doesn't Johnson have Kingmaker in AMPU? I had no idea who he was until I saw he had Kingmaker in one of the previous playtests, and couldn't understood why.

[Pringles]

4 hours ago, ConservativeElector2 said:

Now there's a humble and decent person elected Speaker. Not that I wouldn't say that about Kevin too, but I really like Mike for a long time (and at some point inquired about him being added to AMPU I believe). Seems very likeable and he's kind of the politician I am still enthusiastic about.

I listened to his first speech after being elected and I am not sure if I had done that for another Speaker. Even if you disagree with him, Mike seems like the leader who can still be respected by everyone. Really a good choice!

 

2 hours ago, vcczar said:

I wish you'd take him to Austria with you so you can have him. He opposes Ukraine aid. He supports Trump discredited election fraud theory. He's close to Matt Gaetz's wing. He's pretty bad. I gave him the benefit of the doubt as the vote was coming in because I just wanted there to be a Speaker. I'm hoping moderate GOPers vote him out with all the Dems if he starts acting on his MAGA tendencies. 

I won’t speak unfavorably of him as a human being with a family, however, he is far from the Speaker I wanted. Austin Scott, Tom Emmer, some coalition arrangement. Gaetz is bragging about “MAGA Mike Johnson.” And someone called him “Jim Jordan in drag.” Hopefully 2024 gets certified without much resistance like 2020, frankly, if these slate of candidates were up 20 years ago they’d have no chance at becoming Speaker. Just like the 30 House Democrats that objected to Ohio in 2004. A state that voted for Bush by over 100,000 votes. If the GOP loses Texas in 2024 which is a possibility, I fear the party is going to lose it and go even more completely nuts. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Pringles

[Pius XIII]

On 10/25/2023 at 8:31 PM, Pringles said:

 

I won’t speak unfavorably of him as a human being with a family, however, he is far from the Speaker I wanted. Austin Scott, Tom Emmer, some coalition arrangement. Gaetz is bragging about “MAGA Mike Johnson.” And someone called him “Jim Jordan in drag.” Hopefully 2024 gets certified without much resistance like 2020, frankly, if these slate of candidates were up 20 years ago they’d have no chance at becoming Speaker. Just like the 30 House Democrats that objected to Ohio in 2004. A state that voted for Bush by over 100,000 votes. If the GOP loses Texas in 2024 which is a possibility, I fear the party is going to lose it and go even more completely nuts. 

Like most folks, I hadn’t even heard of Mike Johnson. I don’t place much stock in what Gaetz says, he is trying to justify his actions by calling Johnson “MAGA”, nor Jeffries, who has no room to talk about extremism and election denial claims based on his own history. That being said, while Johnson is a bit too “evangelical” for my taste, he does seem to be a solid conservative.  Johnson now has a difficult task- and no room for error seeing how there are several moderates in New York and California up for election. 

[ConservativeElector2]

18 minutes ago, Pius XIII said:

I don’t place much stock in what Gaetz says, he is trying to justify his actions by calling Johnson “MAGA”

Exactly my take on Gaetz's statements.

[Hestia]

1 hour ago, Pius XIII said:

Like most folks, I hadn’t even heard of Mike Johnson. I don’t place much stock in what Gaetz says, he is trying to justify his actions by calling Johnson “MAGA”, nor Jeffries, who has no room to talk about extremism and election denial claims based on his own history. That being said, while Johnson is a bit too “evangelical” for my taste, he does seem to be a solid conservative.  Johnson now has a difficult task- and no room for error seeing how there are several moderates in New York and California up for election. 

Who needs to take what others say to make their own conclusions? I don't really give a crap what Gaetz or even Jeffries says, I can read and see for myself what Johnson has done. He has a clear problem with election denial and even made the Texas amicus brief himself. He personally led and backed an effort to disenfranchise four states in this union and overturn their result by another state. That's a scary thing for our democracy, and I don't need anyone to tell me that it is or is not to make my opinion. 

[Pringles]

1 hour ago, Pius XIII said:

Like most folks, I hadn’t even heard of Mike Johnson. I don’t place much stock in what Gaetz says, he is trying to justify his actions by calling Johnson “MAGA”, nor Jeffries, who has no room to talk about extremism and election denial claims based on his own history. That being said, while Johnson is a bit too “evangelical” for my taste, he does seem to be a solid conservative.  Johnson now has a difficult task- and no room for error seeing how there are several moderates in New York and California up for election. 

 

2 minutes ago, Hestia said:

Who needs to take what others say to make their own conclusions? I don't really give a crap what Gaetz or even Jeffries says, I can read and see for myself what Johnson has done. He has a clear problem with election denial and even made the Texas amicus brief himself. He personally led and backed an effort to disenfranchise four states in this union and overturn their result by another state. That's a scary thing for our democracy, and I don't need anyone to tell me that it is or is not to make my opinion. 

That isn’t the point I’m making concerning Gaetz. You can look at his statements and any other Representatives associated with the MAGA wing of the party, they feel they have a strong ally in Mike Johnson now. That is the root of my qualms. The party has already made a grave error in making him Speaker of the House. Johnson is unknown but he’s easy to attack. Just take a look at his voting record and actions in 2020. If the party was concerned about absolutely no room for error, they wouldn’t have made him Speaker in the first place. He’ll start to become akin to Jim Jordan soon enough. 

[Pius XIII]

1 minute ago, Pringles said:

 

That isn’t the point I’m making concerning Gaetz. You can look at his statements and any other Representatives associated with the MAGA wing of the party, they feel they have a strong ally in Mike Johnson now. That is the root of my qualms. The party has already made a grave error in making him Speaker of the House. Johnson is unknown but he’s easy to attack. Just take a look at his voting record and actions in 2020. If the party was concerned about absolutely no room for error, they wouldn’t have made him Speaker in the first place. He’ll start to become akin to Jim Jordan soon enough. 

I am not saying that I don’t share your concerns. I left the Republican Party because they have continually punched themselves in the face for years now- running Tea Party types in winnable races(recall the 2010 Delaware Senate race?), nominating Trump, and now giving the MAGA types overt influence. But I will still reject hypocritical and bad faith arguments from Jeffries when I have heard the term “illegitimate president” from the very same democrats since the Bush II days. Should they have chosen Johnson? My gut says no, but in the very least he doesn’t have the baggage of Jordan and is at least a decent communicator if we are going by his speech last night. Now the GOP needs to actually focus on winning elections against an unpopular president. We’ll see what happens.

[Pringles]

3 minutes ago, Pius XIII said:

But I will still reject hypocritical and bad faith arguments from Jeffries when I have heard the term “illegitimate president” from the very same democrats since the Bush II days.

Completely agree with you there.