The Grassroots Divide: A 1772 Two-Player Populist Showdown

[MrPotatoTed]

20 minutes ago, Cal said:

So, what happens when it moves back up? Is the enthusiasm reversed? If it goes up and then back down, do you process those losses twice? Is it only calculated on moving to that square, so staying there forever once the other party gets you there has no negative effect on enthusiasm? (In the case of Rev/Budget) Do you calculate the hit when you move UP a square as well, punishing a party for raising the meter?

Either way, it made no difference in this scenario at least but I’d love to know the correct way moving forward. 

I only calculate things from the meter once, at the end of the lingering phase.  So if you pass laws later that move a meter, I don’t do the enthusiasm from the new meter reading until the next lingering phase.

 

I could see an argument that it should be done right before the election instead, and that’s fine.  But still only once every two years. 

[vcczar]

1 minute ago, MrPotatoTed said:

I only calculate things from the meter once, at the end of the lingering phase.  So if you pass laws later that move a meter, I don’t do the enthusiasm from the new meter reading until the next lingering phase.

 

I could see an argument that it should be done right before the election instead, and that’s fine.  But still only once every two years. 

This is how I imagine it being done. If that isn’t clear, you can amend the rules. I’m also okay with suggestions for altering the rules. The lingering part is probably the part I’m least confident about. 

[ShortKing]

4 minutes ago, MrPotatoTed said:

I could see an argument that it should be done right before the election instead, and that’s fine.  But still only once every two years. 

I would prefer to see it done just before the elections, since lingering comes so early in the turn and doing it right before elections better simulates how pols irl govern keeping both eyes on the upcoming elections

[Cal]

Hi everyone! 

Obviously, this project died off in September. Life got busy, other playtests picked up, and this one went to the dust. Rezi and I simply didn't have the time to run the two player factions and all 8 CPU factions on top of other obligations. Sadly, we'll never know what would have happened in this version of American history... 

Or will we? 

If there's interest, I'd be happy to continue the game again, doing a "soft reset" by skipping ahead to 1788 (as there is pretty much no legislation left to propose) and the Age of Federalism.

However, with the amount of work that it ended up being to run all of the CPU teams, I'd be looking to expand the playtest from a 2-player showdown with 8 AI to as many players that can reasonably commit to playing, updating their sheet, etc. I've also had some ideas for testing some expanded judicial mechanics, though its unlikely they'd actually make it into the rules so it'd only be if the players wanted to do so. 

If you're interested, please let me know. I reckon that, if @Rezi is still interested, at least another 2 human players would make this workable again. Playtesters already with access to an old playtest are preferred. 

@MrPotatoTed @Hestia @jvikings1 @Fbarbarossa @Pringles @ebrk85 @ShortKing

[ebrk85]

Would love to help but I am already involved in way too many playtests at the moment to be of service.

[Euri]

Three cheers for John Bartram

[Bushwa777]

I would love to play.....but already doing 2

[Vols21]

I can help if you need 

[Rezi]

I can probably pick back up where I left off.

[DJBillyShakes]

On 1/19/2023 at 12:12 PM, Cal said:

Hi everyone! 

Obviously, this project died off in September. Life got busy, other playtests picked up, and this one went to the dust. Rezi and I simply didn't have the time to run the two player factions and all 8 CPU factions on top of other obligations. Sadly, we'll never know what would have happened in this version of American history... 

Or will we? 

If there's interest, I'd be happy to continue the game again, doing a "soft reset" by skipping ahead to 1788 (as there is pretty much no legislation left to propose) and the Age of Federalism.

However, with the amount of work that it ended up being to run all of the CPU teams, I'd be looking to expand the playtest from a 2-player showdown with 8 AI to as many players that can reasonably commit to playing, updating their sheet, etc. I've also had some ideas for testing some expanded judicial mechanics, though its unlikely they'd actually make it into the rules so it'd only be if the players wanted to do so. 

If you're interested, please let me know. I reckon that, if @Rezi is still interested, at least another 2 human players would make this workable again. Playtesters already with access to an old playtest are preferred. 

@MrPotatoTed @Hestia @jvikings1 @Fbarbarossa @Pringles @ebrk85 @ShortKing

I'm currently only involved with one playtest and would be fully available to play.

[Alexander-Nicholas]

Not currently a play tester but would love to be one, plus i am free pretty much all day. 

[Cal]

On 1/20/2023 at 4:14 AM, Vols21 said:

I can help if you need 

 

On 1/20/2023 at 4:19 AM, Rezi said:

I can probably pick back up where I left off.

 

On 1/20/2023 at 7:41 PM, jvikings1 said:

If there are similar requirements (and flexibilities), I would be interested. I shouldn't be too busy to check once a day (at minimum)

 

On 1/20/2023 at 7:51 PM, DJBillyShakes said:

I'm currently only involved with one playtest and would be fully available to play.

This should be enough to get this back off the ground. I'll work on updating the sheets, and on Friday we can begin by selecting candidates for the 1788 election and running that election. 

Assuming Rezi retains his faction, @Vols21 @DJBillyShakes and @jvikings1 can each pick a Red or Blue faction to take over, but it's probably best if you don't all pick the same team. The choices are...

RedConCPU -- Conservatives, Nationalists. 
Governor John Sullivan.

RedModCPU -- Moderates. 
President John Bartram.

RedLibCPU --Moderates, Globalists. 
Representative George Washington.

RedProgCPU -- Liberals, Civil Rights.
Governor George Wythe.

BlueTradCPU -- Traditionalists, RW Populists, RW Activists, Expansionists, Big Agriculture. 
Former Representative Thomas Jefferson.

BlueConCPU -- Moderates.
Mr. John Hancock. Charisma. Predictable. 

BlueModCPU -- Moderates.
Former Governor George Clinton.

BlueLibCPU -- Moderates.
Former Governor Cornelius Harnett.

Also, please PM me your email addresses so I can add you to the sheet 😛 

[Cal]

I'll begin working on this Friday, shouldn't take more than a few hours to update the sheet ideally. 

[Cal]

Last call for anyone else to get involved in this playtest. Right now, it looks like we’ll have 6 players and 4 AI, which is a good number.

[Bushwa777]

I am doing 2 playtests but if you need someone else I can join this one as well.  Gives me a flavor of the game in all parts.  But again if you do not want that this is fine just wanted to offer 

[Cal]

16 minutes ago, Bushwa777 said:

I am doing 2 playtests but if you need someone else I can join this one as well.  Gives me a flavor of the game in all parts.  But again if you do not want that this is fine just wanted to offer 

Feel free to join if you'd like, but no pressure if you're busy with other commitments. The playtest will go on with the current amount regardless (I only needed at least 2 additional hands and received 4 so we're golden!) but it's always nice to have more 🙂

[Cal]

@Vols21 @DJBillyShakes @jvikings1 @Alexander-Nicholas

With 4 new players currently, I'm thinking the best way to divvy out the factions would be to stay true to the original goal of this playtest: playing on the fringes. The most moderate establishment factions would be AI, although at this point in time those divisions aren't super apparent yet. Liberals and Conservative intended factions still have plenty of moderates. 

In that case, the open factions for y'all would be... 

BLUE: 

BlueTradCPU -- Traditionalists, RW Populists, RW Activists, Expansionists, Big Agriculture. 
Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson. 

BlueLibCPU -- Moderates.
Former Governor Cornelius Harnett.

BlueConCPU -- Moderates.
Mr. John Hancock.

RED: 

RedLibCPU --Moderates, Globalists. 
Representative George Washington.

RedProgCPU -- Liberals, Civil Rights.
Governor George Wythe.

RedConCPU -- Conservatives, Nationalists. 
Governor John Sullivan.

You should all have access to the sheet, though I've not touched it yet (intend to do that Friday) if you want to look at the specifics of each statesman first. 

The playtest technically left off at the election of 1786 without the election ever actually going forward. I'll leave y'all with a few options: 

Option 1: I'll run the 1786 election as all AI and then move straight to the election of 1788 (while allowing you to choose Faction & Party Leaders going into 1788) so we can begin in the new era (everything was exhausted already in this one, and I'll have to change biases for the new era)

Option 2: Start directly with the election of 1788 and never do 1786 at all, but still choose faction/party leaders. This option means you wouldn't have to run House candidates and then immediately run ANOTHER election. 

Option 3: Run through the full 1786 election and all of the phases leading up to the 1788 election. 

[Bushwa777]

5 minutes ago, Cal said:

Feel free to join if you'd like, but no pressure if you're busy with other commitments. The playtest will go on with the current amount regardless (I only needed at least 2 additional hands and received 4 so we're golden!) but it's always nice to have more 🙂

I would love to.  Sending you my email 

[Bushwa777]

20 minutes ago, Cal said:

@Vols21 @DJBillyShakes @jvikings1 @Alexander-Nicholas

With 4 new players currently, I'm thinking the best way to divvy out the factions would be to stay true to the original goal of this playtest: playing on the fringes. The most moderate establishment factions would be AI, although at this point in time those divisions aren't super apparent yet. Liberals and Conservative intended factions still have plenty of moderates. 

In that case, the open factions for y'all would be... 

BLUE: 

BlueTradCPU -- Traditionalists, RW Populists, RW Activists, Expansionists, Big Agriculture. 
Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson. 

BlueLibCPU -- Moderates.
Former Governor Cornelius Harnett.

BlueConCPU -- Moderates.
Mr. John Hancock.

RED: 

RedLibCPU --Moderates, Globalists. 
Representative George Washington.

RedProgCPU -- Liberals, Civil Rights.
Governor George Wythe.

RedConCPU -- Conservatives, Nationalists. 
Governor John Sullivan.

You should all have access to the sheet, though I've not touched it yet (intend to do that Friday) if you want to look at the specifics of each statesman first. 

The playtest technically left off at the election of 1786 without the election ever actually going forward. I'll leave y'all with a few options: 

Option 1: I'll run the 1786 election as all AI and then move straight to the election of 1788 (while allowing you to choose Faction & Party Leaders going into 1788) so we can begin in the new era (everything was exhausted already in this one, and I'll have to change biases for the new era)

Option 2: Start directly with the election of 1788 and never do 1786 at all, but still choose faction/party leaders. This option means you wouldn't have to run House candidates and then immediately run ANOTHER election. 

Option 3: Run through the full 1786 election and all of the phases leading up to the 1788 election. 

I have sent you my email so if I can play I say option 1 or 2

[Alexander-Nicholas]

New to all this so I apologize in advance if something goes wrong.

option 1 or 2 sound like the best choices though. 

[Bushwa777]

Thanks for invite.  I'm tired of always playing red so if I can I will take bluetrad jefferson or blue con Hancock 

[Alexander-Nicholas]

Sticking to what i know, i am open to take 

RedLibCPU George Washington or RedProgCPU George Wythe.

[Cal]

@Vols21 @DJBillyShakes @jvikings1 @Alexander-Nicholas @Bushwa777 @ShortKing

Here are the instructions for those who have expressed interest so far and had the sheet shared with them! 

Step 1: Choose a preferred faction and two or three backup factions you're comfortable playing. If all 6 of you play, that means we'll have 8 humans and 2 CPU factions, with the CPU factions being the true moderates. Please respond to this post with your preference.

Step 2: Vote on Option 1, 2, or 3 for where to begin the game. Also: we were running a house rule before that getting a politician to a certain politician value would allow you to roll to generate a dynasty member for them in the next draft. If you guys still want to do that just let me know. Please respond to this post with your vote. 

Step 3: If there are any experimental rules you would like to see tested out in this run, please suggest them. I've seen other playtests that have done rules affecting command or military overhauls. If you'd like to try a new rule out (or a modification of a current one!) we can all discuss it for sure. 

I'll clean up the sheet Friday and get ready to run whatever election results from Step 2. All rolls (besides election rolls, which can be checked in the version history as they'll all be on the sheet through the randbetween function that generates them in bulk and then I'll copy-paste the batch) will be done through Discord for full transparency, and if anyone ever wants to help out with rolls this means that it should never be an issue. 

[Bushwa777]

2 hours ago, Cal said:

@Vols21 @DJBillyShakes @jvikings1 @Alexander-Nicholas @Bushwa777 @ShortKing

Here are the instructions for those who have expressed interest so far and had the sheet shared with them! 

Step 1: Choose a preferred faction and two or three backup factions you're comfortable playing. If all 6 of you play, that means we'll have 8 humans and 2 CPU factions, with the CPU factions being the true moderates. Please respond to this post with your preference.

Step 2: Vote on Option 1, 2, or 3 for where to begin the game. Also: we were running a house rule before that getting a politician to a certain politician value would allow you to roll to generate a dynasty member for them in the next draft. If you guys still want to do that just let me know. Please respond to this post with your vote. 

Step 3: If there are any experimental rules you would like to see tested out in this run, please suggest them. I've seen other playtests that have done rules affecting command or military overhauls. If you'd like to try a new rule out (or a modification of a current one!) we can all discuss it for sure. 

I'll clean up the sheet Friday and get ready to run whatever election results from Step 2. All rolls (besides election rolls, which can be checked in the version history as they'll all be on the sheet through the randbetween function that generates them in bulk and then I'll copy-paste the batch) will be done through Discord for full transparency, and if anyone ever wants to help out with rolls this means that it should never be an issue. 

Ok I would like a Blue faction.  My top blue trad with Thomas Jefferson.  My backups are blue con John Hancock or Blue mod George Clinton

I vote on option 1 or 2 

I suggest that the new President should be allowed to replace military as well as executive branch after all he is commander in chief 

[ebrk85]

34 minutes ago, Bushwa777 said:

I suggest that the new President should be allowed to replace military as well as executive branch after all he is commander in chief 

Being an Era of Independence game, until the firing precedent is set you won't be able to replace any appointed people. Cabinet or otherwise 🙂