The Grassroots Divide: A 1772 Two-Player Populist Showdown

[Vols21]

option 1 of pre-entering the incumbents works well.  then if someone plans to not run (maybe they intend for their Rep to run for Gov. (or Senate in later years)  or they are term limited,  they could notify you so it could be marked as an "open seat"

[DJBillyShakes]

Yeah, I like that idea if it's not too much added work for the GM.

[Bushwa777]

Are we still in era of Continental Congress?  Do we have Constitution yet?  A House? A Senate? 

[Cal]

3 hours ago, Bushwa777 said:

Are we still in era of Continental Congress?  Do we have Constitution yet?  A House? A Senate? 

This game is a bit weird because it was before the rules were amended to only allow for the Constitution to take effect in the Age of Federalism. Technically speaking, John Bartram should have never become president because now according to the rules there can't be a President at all before 1788 😛 

We are in the Era of Independence, but have a super House of Representatives. No Senate, just a double sized House. 

[Cal]

Will be running the Faction Leader gains/Party Leader election very soon. It’s likely that the Blue Party will go to a second ballot but we’ll see!

[Cal]

16 hours ago, jvikings1 said:

Jefferson will run

Jefferson gains +1 Admin (4 --> 5), Disharmonious (already had it), Passive (conflicts with Iron Fist, rolled a 2, so both are cancelled out), Kingmaker. 

23 hours ago, Rezi said:

Adams will run again 

Adams gains +1 Legislative. (4 --> 5)

23 hours ago, Cal said:

BlueModCPU -- Moderates, Military-Industrial.
Secretary of State George Clinton.
He is the only option as he is the only non-Obscure statesman meeting all of the requirements.

Clinton gains +1 Admin (already max), Charisma (already had it). 

23 hours ago, Bushwa777 said:

We will go back to former faction leader and current Secretary of War John Milton.  We will also run against Sam Adams as we need a Southerner and a moderate not a radical in charge of our party! 

Secretary of War John Milton gains +1 Command (2 --> 3), Iron Fist (already had it)

22 hours ago, ShortKing said:

John Hancock will not be running for Party Leader but will be urging his fellow patriots to look for a leader with the charisma and strong will needed to provide a clear and compelling vision for our young nation.

(I will be endorsing a faction leader with both charisma and iron fist for party leader, meaning either George Clinton or Thomas Jefferson, depending on who ends up running and with better cards to share)

No gains. 

All of your sheets are updated. Moving on to the first round of Party Leader elections. 

[Cal]

Blue Party Leader Election, 1786-1788

BlueModCPU Secretary Clinton declines to run for party leader and instead endorses incumbent @Rezi Samuel Adams. 

I'm assuming @ShortKing is still endorsing Thomas Jefferson because Clinton declined to run. 

@Rezi Samuel Adams has Iron Fist and Leadership. 2 + 5 + 6 = 13. 

@jvikings1 Thomas Jefferson has Leadership. 2 + 2 + 1 = 5.

@Bushwa777 John Milton has Iron Fist and Leadership. 1 + 4.

  Samuel Adams wins the Party Leader election with 13/21 votes! Incredible luck here for Rezi. Not only did Clinton endorse him as the incumbent, but the endorsement roll was a full 6 versus Hancock's endorsement of Jefferson only giving 1 vote. He needed 12 votes and got 13. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adams has no gains (missed every roll, I guess your luck ran out). 

LW Populists move +1 Blue (already maxed)

Adams LW Populism causes every Moderate faction anger. Moderates move +6 Red (was at 7, now maxed towards Reds). 

Adams LW Populism causes Conservatives, Traditionalists, and RW Populists to move +1 Red each. (Conservatives 8 --> 9, Traditionalists 6 --> 7, RW Populists 8 --> 9). 

Adams' Charisma causes Party Preference to move +1 Blue (7 --> 6, now neutral favoring Reds)

Overall, Adams as Party Leader maxes out the LW Populist vote and increases Party Preference to the detriment of pretty much all of your Ideological Enthusiasm. Yikes. Now moving on to Red Faction Leaders and Bartram's PL gains, if any. 

[Bushwa777]

I told you all- john milton 

[Cal]

Red Faction Leader Gains, 1776-1778

RedModCPU President Bartram gains +1 Gov. (0 --> 1)

HHCal Governor Benedict Arnold gains +1 Command (3 --> 4)

@DJBillyShakes Postmaster General George Wythe gains nothing. 

@Alexander-Nicholas Representative Washington gains nothing. 

@Vols21 Governor John Sullivan gains Leadership, Charisma, Debater, and +1 Gov (4 --> 5)

Red Party Leader Election, 1776-1778

RedModCPU John Bartram continues his odd dominance over the Red Party. Gains +1 Governing (1 --> 2). 

Traditionalists move +1 Blue (7 --> 6)

Moderates move +1 Red (already maxed). 

Every other ideology borders Moderates so no other enthusiasm drops. 

[Cal]

Quick correction: As it is all of the Party Leaders cards that get an ideology bonus, Adams also causes Progressives to move +1 Blue (5 --> 4).

Action goes to @Rezi to select a card to share with his party but... his only cards (LW Activists and Isolationists) cannot join any of the other faction's ideologies. 

I'll go ahead and set up the election sheet with the current incumbents. There's a very real chance that elections have changed some since I looked at it last, but in all honesty things aren't looking great here for the Blue Team in many regards. The meters are currently at: 

Revenue/Budget: Very Overspending (1) (CRISIS)
Economic Stability: Stagnation (5) (CRISIS) (-1 to Incumbent Party in Presidential Elections)
Military Preparedness: Very unprepared to slightly unprepared (2) (CRISIS)
Domestic Stability: Stable (7)
Honest Government: Free (9) (Politician with "Controversial" an extra -2 in elections)

Relationship with the United Kingdom: 8 (one away from an alliance!)
Relationship with the Spanish Empire: 9 (Staunch allies)
Relationship with the Kingdom of Spain: (Staunch allies)

LW Populists: 1 (maxed Blue, +3 to Blue LW Populists in all elections)
Progressives: 4 (neutral, lean Blue)
Liberals: 2 (+2 to Blue Liberals in all elections)
Moderates: 9 (maxed Red, +3 to Red Moderates in all elections)
Conservatives: 9 (maxed Red, +3 to Red Moderates in all elections)
Traditionalists: 6 (neutral, lean Red)
RW Populists: 9 (maxed Red, +3 to Red Moderates in all elections)

For anyone who's been involved in more recent playtests, I'd just like to confirm that enthusiasm still affects elections like described above. The sheet says "state ideology bonus" which I had before thought meant it only applied to states with that ideology as preferred, but I remember being told that V explained it actually applied everywhere. 

[DJBillyShakes]

2 hours ago, Cal said:

This game is a bit weird because it was before the rules were amended to only allow for the Constitution to take effect in the Age of Federalism. Technically speaking, John Bartram should have never become president because now according to the rules there can't be a President at all before 1788 😛 

We are in the Era of Independence, but have a super House of Representatives. No Senate, just a double sized House. 

For our super House, is 25 still the minimum age?

[Willthescout7]

3 minutes ago, Cal said:

Quick correction: As it is all of the Party Leaders cards that get an ideology bonus, Adams also causes Progressives to move +1 Blue (5 --> 4).

Action goes to @Rezi to select a card to share with his party but... his only cards (LW Activists and Isolationists) cannot join any of the other faction's ideologies. 

I'll go ahead and set up the election sheet with the current incumbents. There's a very real chance that elections have changed some since I looked at it last, but in all honesty things aren't looking great here for the Blue Team in many regards. The meters are currently at: 

Revenue/Budget: Very Overspending (1) (CRISIS)
Economic Stability: Stagnation (5) (CRISIS) (-1 to Incumbent Party in Presidential Elections)
Military Preparedness: Very unprepared to slightly unprepared (2) (CRISIS)
Domestic Stability: Stable (7)
Honest Government: Free (9) (Politician with "Controversial" an extra -2 in elections)

Relationship with the United Kingdom: 8 (one away from an alliance!)
Relationship with the Spanish Empire: 9 (Staunch allies)
Relationship with the Kingdom of Spain: (Staunch allies)

LW Populists: 1 (maxed Blue, +3 to Blue LW Populists in all elections)
Progressives: 4 (neutral, lean Blue)
Liberals: 2 (+2 to Blue Liberals in all elections)
Moderates: 9 (maxed Red, +3 to Red Moderates in all elections)
Conservatives: 9 (maxed Red, +3 to Red Moderates in all elections)
Traditionalists: 6 (neutral, lean Red)
RW Populists: 9 (maxed Red, +3 to Red Moderates in all elections)

For anyone who's been involved in more recent playtests, I'd just like to confirm that enthusiasm still affects elections like described above. The sheet says "state ideology bonus" which I had before thought meant it only applied to states with that ideology as preferred, but I remember being told that V explained it actually applied everywhere. 

@Ich_bin_Tyler

[Ich_bin_Tyler]

5 minutes ago, Cal said:

Quick correction: As it is all of the Party Leaders cards that get an ideology bonus, Adams also causes Progressives to move +1 Blue (5 --> 4).

Action goes to @Rezi to select a card to share with his party but... his only cards (LW Activists and Isolationists) cannot join any of the other faction's ideologies. 

I'll go ahead and set up the election sheet with the current incumbents. There's a very real chance that elections have changed some since I looked at it last, but in all honesty things aren't looking great here for the Blue Team in many regards. The meters are currently at: 

Revenue/Budget: Very Overspending (1) (CRISIS)
Economic Stability: Stagnation (5) (CRISIS) (-1 to Incumbent Party in Presidential Elections)
Military Preparedness: Very unprepared to slightly unprepared (2) (CRISIS)
Domestic Stability: Stable (7)
Honest Government: Free (9) (Politician with "Controversial" an extra -2 in elections)

Relationship with the United Kingdom: 8 (one away from an alliance!)
Relationship with the Spanish Empire: 9 (Staunch allies)
Relationship with the Kingdom of Spain: (Staunch allies)

LW Populists: 1 (maxed Blue, +3 to Blue LW Populists in all elections)
Progressives: 4 (neutral, lean Blue)
Liberals: 2 (+2 to Blue Liberals in all elections)
Moderates: 9 (maxed Red, +3 to Red Moderates in all elections)
Conservatives: 9 (maxed Red, +3 to Red Moderates in all elections)
Traditionalists: 6 (neutral, lean Red)
RW Populists: 9 (maxed Red, +3 to Red Moderates in all elections)

For anyone who's been involved in more recent playtests, I'd just like to confirm that enthusiasm still affects elections like described above. The sheet says "state ideology bonus" which I had before thought meant it only applied to states with that ideology as preferred, but I remember being told that V explained it actually applied everywhere. 

That's how I do it with the ideology enthusiasm. 

[Cal]

Note: I realized that RedLibCPU James Bowdoin died while the Governor of Massachusetts. So, we'll have to backfill that seat before the election by allowing the player taking over that faction @DJBillyShakes to choose a Red statesman from Massachusetts with at least 1 Gov. (there are no Red Executive Track statesmen from MA, so you have to pick an unemployed one) 

[DJBillyShakes]

3 minutes ago, Cal said:

Note: I realized that RedLibCPU James Bowdoin died while the Governor of Massachusetts. So, we'll have to backfill that seat before the election by allowing the player taking over that faction @DJBillyShakes to choose a Red statesman from Massachusetts with at least 1 Gov. (there are no Red Executive Track statesmen from MA, so you have to pick an unemployed one) 

While I'd love to take that seat, I think that @Alexander-Nicholas took over the RedLibs. I took over RedProgs.

[Cal]

Absolutely befuddled at the moment. I can see on the MASTER tab that Jvikings has Representative Samuel Ashe, but I sure can't find him anywhere on Jvikings sheet. He's the incumbent representative for NC-2 though. Hopefully we can find him again 😛 

[Cal]

7 minutes ago, DJBillyShakes said:

While I'd love to take that seat, I think that @Alexander-Nicholas took over the RedLibs. I took over RedProgs.

In that case, action to him. 

[Rezi]

1 hour ago, Cal said:

Quick correction: As it is all of the Party Leaders cards that get an ideology bonus, Adams also causes Progressives to move +1 Blue (5 --> 4).

Action goes to @Rezi to select a card to share with his party but... his only cards (LW Activists and Isolationists) cannot join any of the other faction's ideologies. 

I'll go ahead and set up the election sheet with the current incumbents. There's a very real chance that elections have changed some since I looked at it last, but in all honesty things aren't looking great here for the Blue Team in many regards. The meters are currently at: 

Revenue/Budget: Very Overspending (1) (CRISIS)
Economic Stability: Stagnation (5) (CRISIS) (-1 to Incumbent Party in Presidential Elections)
Military Preparedness: Very unprepared to slightly unprepared (2) (CRISIS)
Domestic Stability: Stable (7)
Honest Government: Free (9) (Politician with "Controversial" an extra -2 in elections)

Relationship with the United Kingdom: 8 (one away from an alliance!)
Relationship with the Spanish Empire: 9 (Staunch allies)
Relationship with the Kingdom of Spain: (Staunch allies)

LW Populists: 1 (maxed Blue, +3 to Blue LW Populists in all elections)
Progressives: 4 (neutral, lean Blue)
Liberals: 2 (+2 to Blue Liberals in all elections)
Moderates: 9 (maxed Red, +3 to Red Moderates in all elections)
Conservatives: 9 (maxed Red, +3 to Red Moderates in all elections)
Traditionalists: 6 (neutral, lean Red)
RW Populists: 9 (maxed Red, +3 to Red Moderates in all elections)

For anyone who's been involved in more recent playtests, I'd just like to confirm that enthusiasm still affects elections like described above. The sheet says "state ideology bonus" which I had before thought meant it only applied to states with that ideology as preferred, but I remember being told that V explained it actually applied everywhere. 

I suppose I’ll fail to share LW Activists 

[Cal]

Incumbents are in for Representatives and Governor elections. Now is the time to add your challengers or withdraw your incumbents. I'll ask that if you do not seek reelection please say so 😛 

The Presidential election is crunched first, however, so without further ado.... 

Presidential Election of 1788 Preview

Extra extra, read all about it! RedModCPU John Bartram in talks with advisors to seek reelection, sources close to the President report. If President Bartram does decide to run for office once again, he'll take office for the 3rd time at the incredible age of 100. The nation is concerned with the celebrity botanist's health, but stunningly he's shown no signs of slowing down and letting that number affect his job performance. In his two terms thus far, he's secured an alliance with the Spanish and the French and almost secured an alliance with our former enemies the British. He brought the Indians in the Northwest to defeat in just months, and his super-cabinet of friends and foes alike have given the nation as strong of a foundation as they can for this era. He's this timeline's George Washington with all of the science and none of the military credentials. 

If and when the President does announce, experts predict a hectic vote in the electoral college. Despite Bartram easily winning reelection four years ago, national politics have changed and the various factions of both parties have grown to be more partisan, a worrying sign coming into a new chapter in the nation's fledgling history. 

Will President Bartram run for reelection? If so, will he dump his unofficial vice presidential candidate Dudley Saltonstall, who stole the office in the last election from now-Representative George Washington? Or will an entirely new field emerge?

Ambitious members of the Blue Party can sense blood in the air in the Presidential election, even if they know that their hopes are all but dead in many downballot races. The triple-Secretary team of Jefferson, Clinton, and Milton have all challenged the President and each other for the Presidency before. Will they offer a shattered resistance to President Bartram and the Red Party again, or will they unify around candidates in the hopes of the Red Party splintering itself? 

We'll all know soon enough 😛 

[Cal]

Pre-12th Amendment Election Rules

 

Special Rules: 

Pre-Party Ticket Elections (pre-12th Amendment)

Prior to the 12th Amendment, we will use these steps:

1. Party Leader nominating candidates: The Party Leader’s faction will nominate 1 politician with at least 1 command for president and one for VP. They may select the Party Leader if he or she has command, and they may select one or both from another faction within their party. Players can decline nomination if they don’t want their politician to run for president or VP.  Exception for all this is – see Era of Good Feelings Rule

2. Faction Leaders concur or nominate an alternate: Faction member with the most politicians with Kingmaker of the specific party will go first (randomize if tied). If the person nominated for President is the incumbent, then only 1 alternate is allowed to be suggested. Otherwise, each faction can suggest one alternate. In general, one alternate is good because if the Pres and VP both get the same number of votes, then the election goes to the house, as such, you’ll want to suggest one alternative. These alternates are considered VP alternates but they could still become president.

3. Election: Once both parties select their Pres nom, VP nom, and alternates, then voting will proceed in every state. Every elector gets 2 votes (technically 1 for Pres and 1 for VP). Use the standard Election Day rules for states that allow the popular vote with the top two finishers in that state getting 1 vote each in that state. Otherwise, players will use politicians kingmakers and the two candidates that get the most kingmaker votes will get 1 vote each in that state. Should no politicians with kingmaker exist in a state, then the player controlling the Gov will make the decision.   Should there be a tie in kingmaker votes, the tie will be broken by the Governor’s party’s leader

4. Result: The top two finishers, regardless of party, when the 2 votes for each state are added up, the top vote getter will be President and 2nd vote getter will be VP. Both will lose “obscure.” If a tie, the vote goes to the US House.

I believe incumbents go first, so I'll kick it off with the Red Party Candidate selection in the next post and deciding Bartram's reelection decision. So, action to me on that end 😛 

Action also goes to the Blue Team to begin their own selection, starting with @Rezi getting to nominate a candidate for President and a candidate for VP. 

You all have from now until the time that the Presidential election is decided to get in your Governor and Representative candidates. When you've done so, please let me know. After the presidential election your candidates will be locked in and I'll process them afterwards. @Vols21 @DJBillyShakes @Alexander-Nicholas @ShortKing @Bushwa777 @jvikings1 @Rezi. 

[Rezi]

3 minutes ago, Cal said:

Pre-12th Amendment Election Rules

 

Special Rules: 

Pre-Party Ticket Elections (pre-12th Amendment)

Prior to the 12th Amendment, we will use these steps:

1. Party Leader nominating candidates: The Party Leader’s faction will nominate 1 politician with at least 1 command for president and one for VP. They may select the Party Leader if he or she has command, and they may select one or both from another faction within their party. Players can decline nomination if they don’t want their politician to run for president or VP.  Exception for all this is – see Era of Good Feelings Rule

2. Faction Leaders concur or nominate an alternate: Faction member with the most politicians with Kingmaker of the specific party will go first (randomize if tied). If the person nominated for President is the incumbent, then only 1 alternate is allowed to be suggested. Otherwise, each faction can suggest one alternate. In general, one alternate is good because if the Pres and VP both get the same number of votes, then the election goes to the house, as such, you’ll want to suggest one alternative. These alternates are considered VP alternates but they could still become president.

3. Election: Once both parties select their Pres nom, VP nom, and alternates, then voting will proceed in every state. Every elector gets 2 votes (technically 1 for Pres and 1 for VP). Use the standard Election Day rules for states that allow the popular vote with the top two finishers in that state getting 1 vote each in that state. Otherwise, players will use politicians kingmakers and the two candidates that get the most kingmaker votes will get 1 vote each in that state. Should no politicians with kingmaker exist in a state, then the player controlling the Gov will make the decision.   Should there be a tie in kingmaker votes, the tie will be broken by the Governor’s party’s leader

4. Result: The top two finishers, regardless of party, when the 2 votes for each state are added up, the top vote getter will be President and 2nd vote getter will be VP. Both will lose “obscure.” If a tie, the vote goes to the US House.

I believe incumbents go first, so I'll kick it off with the Red Party Candidate selection in the next post and deciding Bartram's reelection decision. So, action to me on that end 😛 

Action also goes to the Blue Team to begin their own selection, starting with @Rezi getting to nominate a candidate for President and a candidate for VP. 

You all have from now until the time that the Presidential election is decided to get in your Governor and Representative candidates. When you've done so, please let me know. After the presidential election your candidates will be locked in and I'll process them afterwards. @Vols21 @DJBillyShakes @Alexander-Nicholas @ShortKing @Bushwa777 @jvikings1 @Rezi. 

Samuel Adams for President, Thomas Paine for Vice President.

[Cal]

Red Party Presidential Election Candidate Selection, 1788

Party Leader RedModCPU President John Bartram gets to nominate a candidate for President and Vice President. 

RedModCPU decides to run Bartram for a historic (everything is historic if you're the first, I suppose?) third term! 

John Bartram's ditches Vice President Saltonstall, citing his disloyalty to the party. Instead, he offers the VP bid to @DJBillyShakes Postmaster General George Wythe. Do you accept?

Edited January 28, 2023 by Cal

[Cal]

Blue Party Presidential Election Candidate Selection, 1788

Party Leader Samuel Adams gets to nominate a candidate for President and Vice President. 

4 minutes ago, Rezi said:

Samuel Adams for President, Thomas Paine for Vice President.

As Rezi controls both politicians, this becomes the official intended ticket for the party. Two LW Populists will lead the way in the Blue Party's fight against the Moderate administration. 

Action now goes the rest of the party to either nominate an alternate candidate or concur in Rezi's pick. BlueModCPU George Clinton despite being a Moderate himself gives the ticket his approval.

Action to @jvikings1 @ShortKing @Bushwa777 to decide if they'll run an alternate candidate or concur with Rezi's picks. 

[DJBillyShakes]

6 minutes ago, Cal said:

Red Party Presidential Election Candidate Selection, 1788

Party Leader RedModCPU President John Bartram gets to nominate a candidate for President and Vice President. 

RedModCPU decides to run Bartram for a historic (everything is historic if you're the first, I suppose?) third term! 

John Bartram's ditches Vice President Saltonstall, citing his disloyalty to the party. Instead, he offers the VP bid to @DJBillyShakes Postmaster General George Wythe. Do you accept?

George Wythe accepts.

[Cal]

6 minutes ago, DJBillyShakes said:

George Wythe accepts.

With an incumbent President, only one Alternate can now be chosen by the faction with the most Kingmakers, which is me. 

I nominate RedModCPU Richard Adams Jr, a supergovernor in this timeline after receiving the Hiester event early on. I will not be running Saltonstall for re-election nor casting any votes for an alternate candidate so my full support goes to the intended ticket unless planned otherwise to keep a tie from occurring.